反同运动的前世今生 Pray Away(2020)(EN)Subtitles
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1 00:01:00 Hey, ma'am?
2 00:01:02 -Do you need any prayer today? - No, thanks.
3 00:01:05 Okay, you have a good day.
4 00:01:08 You too.
5 00:01:12 Hey, y'all, I was gonna ask, do y'all need any prayer tonight?
6 00:01:15 I'm just out here praying for people, and I share my testimony with people
7 00:01:19 and pray with them.
8 00:01:22 This is me.
9 00:01:23 I lived transgender before,
10 00:01:25 and I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.
11 00:01:29 -Are you believers? - Yes.
12 00:01:30 So, Father God, I just thank you for my sisters tonight,
13 00:01:33 Lord, that I met, fellow believers in you, Jesus.
14 00:01:36 And I just bless them, in Jesus Christs' name I pray. Amen.
15 00:01:39 Amen.
16 00:01:41 This was me. I lived transgender. Drugs, alcohol, and homosexuality.
17 00:01:45 I was really deep in sin, and I left everything to follow the Lord
18 00:01:49 'cause He's an amazing, powerful God, and He loves us.
19 00:01:52 And so I just-- I share my journey with other people to encourage them.
20 00:01:56 You know, we can always use prayer every day.
21 00:01:59 Bless them, Father, in Jesus Christs' name,
22 00:02:02 to follow you and to know you, Lord. Let us know you. Amen.
23 00:02:05 - Amen. -I lived as a woman.
24 00:02:07 I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.
25 00:02:09 Let her never forget, Father, how important and loved she is to you.
26 00:02:14 In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
27 00:02:17 I was promiscuous with a lot of men, prostituted my body.
28 00:02:21 I share the Gospel and what happened in my life,
29 00:02:24 and how God set me free from this identity 'cause I was trying to become a woman.
30 00:02:28 I'm not a woman. I'm a man.
31 00:02:29 Father, I just thank you for everything you've done.
32 00:02:32 By the Father, by the Son, Jesus, and by you, Holy Spirit.
33 00:02:36 In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.
34 00:02:43 So, this would have been me.
35 00:02:45 It says, "in bondage" and "set free."
36 00:02:49 The biggest things that Jesus is to me is truth.
37 00:02:53 When you know the truth, the truth sets you free.
38 00:02:58 I believe the Bible,
39 00:03:00 that these people will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
40 00:03:07 I do believe that people can change
41 00:03:10 and have a refreshing, renewing over their whole sexuality.
42 00:03:16 The Holy Spirit can give you new desires and wants.
43 00:03:19 Jesus can transform you.
44 00:04:16 Take one, marker.
45 00:04:20 - Are you good with that? - Yeah.
46 00:04:28 We were the leaders of the ex-gay movement.
47 00:04:32 We believed that there was something desperately wrong,
48 00:04:35 that there was something pathological about it,
49 00:04:37 that it was not your normal state,
50 00:04:40 wasn't what God intended,
51 00:04:41 that something must have happened to "make you gay."
52 00:04:45 We really believed
53 00:04:47 that gay people could be saved.
54 00:04:50 This is what the Bible says.
55 00:04:53 It says that some of you were homosexuals, right?
56 00:04:55 But you've changed. You've been washed. You've been transformed.
57 00:04:58 We believed what we were doing was the right thing,
58 00:05:02 to continue pursuing change,
59 00:05:04 and if you didn't want to be gay, that there was a way out for you also.
60 00:05:08 We were doing what we thought God wanted us to do.
61 00:05:39 All right, who wants to do the eggs? No, it goes in there.
62 00:05:47 I just need an egg and the yolk,
63 00:05:50 so you have to separate the white from the yolk.
64 00:05:53 -How are you supposed to do that? - Oh my gosh.
65 00:05:56 - -I have very little confidence right now.
66 00:05:58 Wow.
67 00:06:02 And you broke the yolk already!
68 00:06:05 Okay.
69 00:06:10 - Is it possible to move? - Yes.
70 00:06:14 Great.
71 00:06:15 -Are you good with that? -Yeah.
72 00:06:18 -Is this mic working? - No, not really, so…
73 00:06:21 Then I'm just gonna lean forward a little bit more.
74 00:06:25 You spent six years as a practicing lesbian.
75 00:06:29 I like that word, "practicing."
76 00:06:31 What do you mean, "practicing?" What are you trying to get perfect?
77 00:06:36 "Practicing" lesbian means that I was actually in the lifestyle
78 00:06:40 and not just struggling with the feelings.
79 00:06:43 So I was actually involved in lesbian relationships.
80 00:06:49 Yvette, would you just talk from your heart
81 00:06:51 to those that are trapped in the lifestyle?
82 00:06:56 Well, I know that it is difficult.
83 00:06:59 It took me three years just to overcome same-sex attractions.
84 00:07:03 And it was because I was surrounded by people in the church
85 00:07:06 who really loved me.
86 00:07:08 But God really healing the feminine within me
87 00:07:12 and showing me that the feminine is something that he loves,
88 00:07:16 that it's something that He created.
89 00:07:18 He's the only one who can touch those deep places.
90 00:07:23 That was wonderful.
91 00:07:33 I spent a lot of time thinking, "How did I believe that?"
92 00:07:39 and "How was I involved in it for so long?"
93 00:07:43 I didn't come into the church until I was 27.
94 00:07:48 And the reason
95 00:07:50 I started going to church and became a Christian
96 00:07:54 was I was looking for something.
97 00:07:58 That's absolutely spectacular.
98 00:08:02 I didn't really have those carefree days where you think nothing can touch you.
99 00:08:08 Death was always prevalent, and it was right there.
100 00:08:30 I had had 17 friends die of AIDS during the AIDS crisis.
101 00:08:36 My best friend Ed, his partner was also,
102 00:08:41 and sort of helped them when they were having health problems.
103 00:08:45 And I was in my twenties, and this is what was happening.
104 00:08:50 When you're just wondering if the people that you love
105 00:08:53 are gonna be here the next day and the day after that.
106 00:09:00 I believe that God does not judge people. God judges sin.
107 00:09:04 And I do believe that AIDS,
108 00:09:06 generally caused and believed to be caused by homosexual promiscuity,
109 00:09:10 is a violation of God's laws, laws of nature and decency,
110 00:09:13 and as a result, we pay the price when we violate the laws of God.
111 00:09:28 So to go into a church situation that is very structured,
112 00:09:33 and the rules are very clear,
113 00:09:35 it's a relief, and I-- and that's exactly how I felt.
114 00:09:40 It was a relief.
115 00:09:56 I grew up in a time when it was a crime,
116 00:09:59 a sickness,
117 00:10:01 and a sin to be gay.
118 00:10:06 I wanted desperately to change.
119 00:10:07 I had wanted to change since I was a kid getting bullied for it.
120 00:10:12 Our church was a great big megachurch that I was attending in Anaheim,
121 00:10:15 and they had support groups for divorced people
122 00:10:18 and people that were struggling with alcoholism or drug abuse,
123 00:10:20 and I thought, "How come there's no group for people like me,
124 00:10:23 that have gay feelings?"
125 00:10:26 So,
126 00:10:27 I got the idea of starting a support group within our own local church.
127 00:10:39 Everybody felt that this was a wonderful relief,
128 00:10:43 that they didn't have to struggle alone anymore.
129 00:10:45 They didn't have to pretend-- They didn't have to pretend they were the only one.
130 00:10:50 But we really believed that if you kept repeating it,
131 00:10:54 if you kept claiming that God was changing you, that He would.
132 00:11:01 At that time, we thought we were the only support group like it in the country.
133 00:11:05 But then we began to hear that there were other small ministries like ours
134 00:11:08 that were popping up kind of spontaneously in different parts of the country.
135 00:11:14 And we thought, "Wouldn't it be cool to get together these small ministries
136 00:11:19 and discuss together what we were trying to do
137 00:11:22 and what should happen next?"
138 00:11:25 So we decided to get together and form a conference in Anaheim in 1976,
139 00:11:30 and that's where the organization Exodus was born.
140 00:11:48 And then letters started pouring in
141 00:11:50 from Christians who had no place else to go
142 00:11:54 and suddenly were hearing about this organization
143 00:11:57 that might be able to help them.
144 00:12:01 There were thousands of people that were looking for a group like Exodus.
145 00:12:12 It was once unthinkable,
146 00:12:14 but today it happens in households all over America.
147 00:12:17 A child comes to breakfast and says, "Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay,
148 00:12:22 but I don't want to be."
149 00:12:23 Some parents are learning about a Christian program called Exodus,
150 00:12:27 which claims to convert gays,
151 00:12:29 make them ex-gays with a course of Bible study,
152 00:12:32 behavior modification, and peer counseling.
153 00:12:35 John Paulk is vice president of Exodus, which was founded 21 years ago.
154 00:12:40 -Are you straight now? -I am. -You are? -I am.
155 00:12:42 You're not a gay person who fights with yourself every day?
156 00:12:46 No.
157 00:12:47 You're not a person who fantasizes about men?
158 00:12:49 -No. -Never?
159 00:12:50 I never would have gotten married
160 00:12:53 if I felt on the inside like a gay person.
161 00:12:58 It's funny what to be known for,
162 00:13:01 but at one point, I really was the most famous ex-gay person
163 00:13:06 in the world.
164 00:13:09 I arose to national prominence
165 00:13:12 because I'm a very articulate person.
166 00:13:16 So, I'm articulate, I'm outgoing,
167 00:13:19 I was fearless, I stood out in front,
168 00:13:23 and I became a figurehead.
169 00:13:27 I was the visible person for this movement.
170 00:13:30 The woman he married is a former lesbian he met at Exodus,
171 00:13:34 and now they have a baby boy.
172 00:13:38 There were many leaders,
173 00:13:40 but I was the visual aid because I had this extreme story
174 00:13:43 of married to an ex-lesbian.
175 00:13:46 I mean, we were constantly barraged to be on shows, and talk shows,
176 00:13:50 and this newspaper, and that news program, -and on, and on, and on. -
177 00:13:56 Meet John Paulk and Anne Edward.
178 00:13:58 At one time, they were both gay.
179 00:14:00 Now they are so in love with each other, they're engaged to be married.
180 00:14:04 Both of you find God and say, "I want to not be gay anymore"?
181 00:14:09 Whether you're gay or whatever you're into,
182 00:14:11 it doesn't change the fact God loves you,
183 00:14:13 but this was not God's original intent for you.
184 00:14:17 I had become the chairman of the board of Exodus.
185 00:14:20 My role was to get the message out
186 00:14:24 that homosexuality was changeable.
187 00:14:28 I don't believe that change is possible.
188 00:14:30 I believe that homosexuality, just like heterosexuality,
189 00:14:33 is a gift from God.
190 00:14:34 Would that be like saying a child molester can't change,
191 00:14:37 or a wife-beater can't change?
192 00:14:39 Well, that's-- Now wait a second. Being gay is not being a child molester.
193 00:14:42 No, I-- I'm not comparing it to that. I'm saying it's a certain behavior.
194 00:14:46 There is behavior that's connected with homosexuality.
195 00:14:49 And we're just saying that if you want to change,
196 00:14:52 there is a way to do it.
197 00:14:59 This Exodus group is one of more than 100 organizations
198 00:15:02 working with gays who want to lead straight lives.
199 00:15:07 We believed that homosexuality is a psychological illness that you needed treatment for.
200 00:15:13 Those psychological beliefs,
201 00:15:14 everybody now in the psychological, psychiatric community would agree,
202 00:15:18 are outdated and completely wrong.
203 00:15:22 But Exodus, at its peak, was the largest organization
204 00:15:27 promoting reparative therapy or conversion therapy.
205 00:15:41 I've been in Love In Action Program for 660 days.
206 00:15:44 My powerlessness over homosexuality and compulsive sexual behavior
207 00:15:48 has led me into masturbation, mutual masturbation,
208 00:15:52 short-term and long-term homosexual relationships…
209 00:15:56 In conversion therapy, the explanation for why you are gay
210 00:16:00 is that you must've been traumatized as a child.
211 00:16:03 Either by direct abuse,
212 00:16:06 sexual molestation, physical abuse by parents,
213 00:16:10 or by inadequate or toxic parenting.
214 00:16:14 If you can resolve those parenting issues,
215 00:16:18 then your innate heterosexuality will emerge.
216 00:16:22 I feel restored and reconciled with my relationship with my dad.
217 00:16:36 'Cause God has brought a lot of healing.
218 00:16:39 We love you, Glen. I love you.
219 00:16:42 Very few of the leaders had any kind of formal education
220 00:16:46 in psychology, counseling, human sexuality.
221 00:16:51 They had no qualifications to do what they were doing.
222 00:16:55 A lot of the people that we were counseling had panic attacks
223 00:16:59 and deep depression.
224 00:17:02 We had guys that actually attempted overdose,
225 00:17:05 attempted suicide
226 00:17:08 because they felt guilty that they couldn't change.
227 00:17:16 I couldn't continue to pretend that I was changing.
228 00:17:22 And I couldn't continue to pretend the people I was "helping" were changing.
229 00:17:28 And I thought, "Okay, this is enough." "I'm harming people."
230 00:17:34 But when I left in 1979,
231 00:17:36 Exodus kept growing.
232 00:17:59 We'll take a lot of pictures together.
233 00:18:01 -It's mainly, like, candids of people. - Mm-hmm.
234 00:18:11 We do things in a very slower pace, like, no rush.
235 00:18:14 We do this guided, but then you do your own thing
236 00:18:18 for an intentional, natural look.
237 00:18:21 Are we looking at the camera?
238 00:18:24 Put your hand here.
239 00:18:26 -My hand? -Like that.
240 00:18:29 I can't do it.
241 00:18:42 - Our wedding website. - Seventy days, babe.
242 00:18:45 So, I was at an event, and someone was like, "Where's your wife?"
243 00:18:48 And I was like, "Fiancée! But soon to be."
244 00:18:51 She's like, "You're not married? We all thought you were married."
245 00:18:54 Yeah, I know.
246 00:18:55 People thought we were married like a year ago.
247 00:18:57 I don't know how. Maybe we just seem married?
248 00:18:59 Probably 'cause we're not social and hang out with our cats all the time.
249 00:19:02 -It's the cats. -Is that what it is?
250 00:19:04 - It's totally the cats. Yep. -
251 00:19:08 Hi!
252 00:19:11 How are you?
253 00:19:12 I think I'm more gushy about your wedding than you guys are.
254 00:19:15 The dress, I think, is stunning.
255 00:19:18 Do you have any family heirlooms,
256 00:19:20 or anything that reminds you of a grandmother,
257 00:19:22 or something that's significant in your family as well,
258 00:19:25 you can put into your bouquet, or you can put into your hair?
259 00:19:28 Those are little moments to carry your loved ones with you,
260 00:19:31 just as a sweetness to have them there.
261 00:19:40 I was a happy kid.
262 00:19:45 My family lived on three acres of land with a pond in the back,
263 00:19:49 and I just got to run wild.
264 00:19:56 We went to Bible churches, Baptist churches.
265 00:19:59 That was the only story I knew about the world,
266 00:20:03 the fundamentalist Christian teaching that said God created the world,
267 00:20:08 and God is a loving God.
268 00:20:10 And I found a lot of beauty in it, um,
269 00:20:13 the idea that God created the fishing pond,
270 00:20:15 and the stars, and the wind, and all that,
271 00:20:17 and the idea that Jesus loved us enough to want to be with us.
272 00:20:23 So I wanted to be Jesus' friend.
273 00:20:26 I wanted to be good.
274 00:20:31 Every single thing in our life was conservative Christians.
275 00:20:35 My mom was listening to all the real conservative Christian leaders
276 00:20:40 who said there's a secular agenda, and they're coming for your children.
277 00:20:44 Can you imagine five-year-olds
278 00:20:46 with their little hands folded in their laps
279 00:20:48 while their teacher talks to them
280 00:20:52 about adult perverse sexuality?
281 00:20:54 Homosexuality is moral perversion and is always wrong,
282 00:20:59 period.
283 00:21:01 Every scriptural statement on the subject
284 00:21:04 is a statement of condemnation.
285 00:21:07 ” The main messages I heard about gay people were like, "They're disgusting."
286 00:21:11 It was just always this sense of, "The gays are really, really bad."
287 00:21:15 "Dirty, and scary, and bad."
288 00:21:22 I came out to my mom when I was 16,
289 00:21:25 and my mom was frantic that she has a potentially gay kid.
290 00:21:31 She took me to go meet with this guy named Ricky Chelette.
291 00:21:36 I really didn't want to meet him.
292 00:21:38 It just felt awkward, and weird,
293 00:21:41 and unlikely to work.
294 00:22:03 Good morning. I am so honored to be with you this morning.
295 00:22:06 So we walk in, and Ricky walks out,
296 00:22:11 and he's like, "You must be Julie." And he shakes my hand.
297 00:22:12 He first asked me a few introductory questions,
298 00:22:14 just to try to ease the tension.
299 00:22:16 I want to talk to you about grace and truth. Grace and truth.
300 00:22:20 And I want to particularly talk to you about grace and truth
301 00:22:23 because I think we're in a cultural situation
302 00:22:25 in which grace and truth is hard to find, especially truth.
303 00:22:30 And he has all these dry-erase markers.
304 00:22:33 He goes through this whole theory
305 00:22:36 of how people end up struggling with same-sex attractions.
306 00:22:39 He draws it all out.
307 00:22:41 A little mom and a little dad and a little kid's born,
308 00:22:43 and then, like, he's doing all this, and so,
309 00:22:46 essentially, like, a boy becomes gay
310 00:22:49 because he has a bad relationship with his dad,
311 00:22:52 and there's a sense of mystery towards the same-sex parent,
312 00:22:55 and when they get to adolescence, that becomes sexualized.
313 00:23:01 I asked him, like, "What if you have a great relationship
314 00:23:03 with your same-sex parent, you know, and you still feel gay?"
315 00:23:06 And he was like, "That's where the wild card comes in."
316 00:23:09 And so he talks about sexual abuse.
317 00:23:12 "Well, what about people who haven't been sexually abused?"
318 00:23:15 And then he's like, "Well, a lot of times people forget it."
319 00:23:19 I had no reason to believe it was wrong.
320 00:23:22 I hadn't heard other theories of how people end up gay.
321 00:23:25 And I'm 16, so I'm not like--
322 00:23:26 I literally know no science around any of this.
323 00:23:29 And what he drew out, like, made sense to me. I was like, "Yeah."
324 00:23:33 I know where we're going. We're going toward Jesus.
325 00:23:35 Do you want to come walk with us
326 00:23:37 until we're both transformed to look just like Him?
327 00:23:40 That's what I hope you'll do.
328 00:23:41 Ricky was a little bit older, wiser, really good with kids.
329 00:23:46 It was sort of like having a mentor that seemed to take interest in, like, my life.
330 00:23:53 I still didn't know at that point if I could become straight. Like, I didn't know,
331 00:23:57 but I felt like I could devote myself to being a whole-hearted believer.
332 00:24:03 This is the path to be good.
333 00:24:05 And so,
334 00:24:07 I took it.
335 00:24:19 When I found Jesus,
336 00:24:20 I found for the first time someone who really loved me.
337 00:24:26 From that period forward,
338 00:24:28 the Lord started putting on my heart, "You need to start sharing your story."
339 00:24:48 How's everybody doing?
340 00:24:50 - Good. - Good.
341 00:24:52 I'm very excited and humbled to have, um, Jeffrey here.
342 00:24:55 Y'all are gonna love this brother. He's amazing.
343 00:24:58 Come on, boy!
344 00:25:00 Man, I love you.
345 00:25:01 Can we give our online audience a welcome, too?
346 00:25:09 I'm trying so hard not to cry.
347 00:25:11 I'm just thankful for you, Jeffrey.
348 00:25:13 You are a gift from heaven, for what God's doing in the Spirit.
349 00:25:16 That everywhere you plant your feet,
350 00:25:19 it is a sign that God is about to release revival
351 00:25:22 on the gay community.
352 00:25:24 And I'm just thankful for you.
353 00:25:36 So Father, I thank you.
354 00:25:38 That he is a first fruit of the work you're doing
355 00:25:40 for this generation.
356 00:25:42 Holy Spirit, I ask that you would release fire,
357 00:25:45 anoint his tongue to share your heart,
358 00:25:48 like only He can.
359 00:25:50 And I ask that you would open ears, break stereotypes,
360 00:25:53 break narratives, and reveal Jesus.
361 00:25:56 Amen.
362 00:25:57 - Amen. - Love you, brother.
363 00:26:07 When I grew up in high school in the early 2000s,
364 00:26:11 everything was shifting in the nation with homosexuality.
365 00:26:15 Will & Grace was the biggest show.
366 00:26:17 Every high school movie had the gay best friend.
367 00:26:19 And that's what I put my identity in, being homosexual.
368 00:26:22 -That was-- That was my identity. - Wow.
369 00:26:24 And in the LGBTQ community, that is their identity.
370 00:26:27 I'm gay. I'm lesbian. I'm transgender.
371 00:26:30 Why does it have such a powerful stronghold over them?
372 00:26:33 Because it's the enemy trying to make them think that's their identity.
373 00:26:36 - Yeah. -No other group says things like that.
374 00:26:39 A lot of these schools are pushing that. They want people to get on hormones
375 00:26:44 or start having the surgeries and chopping up their body.
376 00:26:47 And so, you need to be very careful where you send your children to school.
377 00:26:50 That's true.
378 00:26:51 You need to find somewhere
379 00:26:53 they won't be counseling people to chop up their body.
380 00:27:07 When I got into the church, I just followed the rules.
381 00:27:11 This is what you do.
382 00:27:12 You read the Bible, and you believe what the Bible says.
383 00:27:17 And then, it became a matter of,
384 00:27:21 well, the leaders are the special ones.
385 00:27:23 I have to perform in order to be in this special group.
386 00:27:27 I have to perform in order to be recognized
387 00:27:31 and affirmed the way that I want to be.
388 00:27:38 In the early days,
389 00:27:39 I spoke at a fundraising meeting in Laguna Hills.
390 00:27:45 I very much wanted to have Yvette speak…
391 00:27:47 The house was packed, which made me really nervous.
392 00:27:52 And I had prepared for a long time for this
393 00:27:55 'cause I wanted it to be perfect.
394 00:27:57 She is very articulate
395 00:28:00 on speaking on the homosexual political agenda.
396 00:28:03 And that is why we asked, let's videotape it
397 00:28:07 to possibly enable you to have a position
398 00:28:10 as a national spokesperson on this, uh, subject.
399 00:28:15 So that's why Yvette's here.
400 00:28:17 What's happening in the political level,
401 00:28:19 they're trying to give homosexuals special rights.
402 00:28:22 We're not talking equal rights, here.
403 00:28:23 We're talking special rights, giving them special minority status.
404 00:28:27 This is such a huge issue right now
405 00:28:30 that there's really no excuse for not getting involved. And it could…
406 00:28:34 You could hear a pin drop. People were riveted.
407 00:28:38 And then we did a Q and A afterwards
408 00:28:40 so people could ask whatever they wanted and also see that I knew the topic well.
409 00:28:47 Well, thank you all for coming. I wasn't expecting this many people.
410 00:28:53 And afterwards, a woman sitting in the front row
411 00:28:56 asked me if I'd be willing to relocate to Washington, D.C.
412 00:29:04 So I get a phone call that said, "Can you come for an interview
413 00:29:08 at Family Research Council?"
414 00:29:11 Family Research Council is one of the most prominent Christian-right organizations
415 00:29:17 in the country.
416 00:29:18 They have a lot of political power.
417 00:29:23 FRC's experts are well-known by the media for their cutting-edge analysis
418 00:29:27 and quick response to breaking news stories.
419 00:29:29 Voicing your values to defend family, faith, and freedom.
420 00:29:35 The leadership there were all straight, white men.
421 00:29:40 They were looking for a spokesperson
422 00:29:43 who had been gay.
423 00:29:45 And I was told, "You're gonna be great because you're young,
424 00:29:49 you have a Hispanic last name,
425 00:29:52 and you don't look gay."
426 00:30:04 This is my business card.
427 00:30:06 Probably the only one I have left, when I was Yvette Cantu, Policy Analyst.
428 00:30:14 This was a press conference that we did,
429 00:30:18 and I had only been at FRC for maybe two weeks, less than two weeks.
430 00:30:23 We're gonna take you now to the National Press Club.
431 00:30:26 We have a camera this morning
432 00:30:27 at a news conference to be held by the Family Research Council.
433 00:30:31 Today, we're here to talk about what some major world religions
434 00:30:34 have to say about homosexuality.
435 00:30:37 The conservative Christian lobby always needs something
436 00:30:41 they can really get their constituents riled up about
437 00:30:46 and willing to give money
438 00:30:48 and willing to vote.
439 00:30:50 What can really get people riled up?
440 00:30:53 Homosexuality.
441 00:30:59 The general feeling was that gay rights were inevitable.
442 00:31:05 We looked at it like, this is going to destroy the family as we know it.
443 00:31:11 And that it would erode the rights of Christians.
444 00:31:15 What I do at Family Research Council
445 00:31:17 is opposing an aggressive homosexual agenda,
446 00:31:20 which is trying to destroy marriage,
447 00:31:22 which is trying to bring about gay adoption.
448 00:31:24 A child needs a mother and a father.
449 00:31:27 Let me just interject one thing.
450 00:31:28 I just feel I need to say something about my opponent's organization.
451 00:31:32 It doesn't matter if it's gay families, civil rights, employment, housing.
452 00:31:37 They have a fundamental anti-gay agenda.
453 00:31:40 I, I personally came out of the homosexual lifestyle
454 00:31:44 that I was in for six years.
455 00:31:45 I have 15 dead gay male friends who have died of AIDS.
456 00:31:50 My point in all this is to show
457 00:31:52 that it is a dangerous, destructive lifestyle,
458 00:31:54 and people can leave it.
459 00:32:10 I don't want to get rid of these because I want to remember.
460 00:32:13 I don't want to forget. Like, this is part of my life.
461 00:32:16 This is part of what I did,
462 00:32:19 but it's hard to look back.
463 00:32:43 I started at Living Hope when I was 16,
464 00:32:45 and I didn't move away from Living Hope till I was 25.
465 00:32:51 I was doing a weekly counseling session with Ricky,
466 00:32:55 a weekly Living Hope meeting, we just called it "group,"
467 00:32:57 and then I would usually have lunch at Ricky's house on Sunday afternoon.
468 00:33:01 So, like, more days than not, I was at Living Hope stuff.
469 00:33:06 My whole entire life was structured around not being gay.
470 00:33:22 There was a high population of youth who were at Living Hope.
471 00:33:26 It was at least 50 people that were cycling through.
472 00:33:32 We weren't allowed to have outside contact with each other.
473 00:33:35 So we weren't allowed to be friends on Facebook
474 00:33:38 or to know each other's last names.
475 00:33:40 The reason that we couldn't share any identifying information
476 00:33:44 was because they were worried
477 00:33:45 we would all meet up and have sex with each other.
478 00:33:48 We were only allowed to talk when we were, like, supervised.
479 00:33:56 Ricky would say
480 00:33:57 a big part of it's gonna be, like, your spiritual walk,
481 00:34:01 spending time reading the Bible, and praying,
482 00:34:04 and, um, giving up masturbation. Masturbation was a big deal.
483 00:34:07 Giving up masturbation, definitely giving up porn.
484 00:34:12 It was decided between my mom and Ricky
485 00:34:16 that I was gonna quit softball so I wouldn't become gay,
486 00:34:18 and I had to go to a Christian college so I wouldn't become a lesbian.
487 00:34:22 If you were to say, like,
488 00:34:23 "What does Julie need to do to become straight?"
489 00:34:26 It was a lot.
490 00:34:51 One of the things that Exodus International was known for
491 00:34:53 was our annual conference,
492 00:34:56 where people could go and learn more
493 00:35:00 about the whole journey of overcoming same-sex attractions
494 00:35:06 and to have fellowship with other people who believed similarly.
495 00:35:11 We would have lots of workshops,
496 00:35:14 and they would range in topics from family dynamics,
497 00:35:17 to helping men embrace their masculinity,
498 00:35:21 or women to rejoice in their femininity.
499 00:35:26 …focus on 33, which talks about, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God."
500 00:35:28 A mistake they make is they start thinking about the rest of their lives.
501 00:35:32 They're drawn into lesbianism probably because
502 00:35:35 she wants to protect against further hurt from a man.
503 00:35:38 She needs a lot of healing before she could ever be open to a relationship with a man.
504 00:35:43 I went to my first Exodus conference when I was 17 years old.
505 00:35:48 Ricky took a big group of people from Living Hope every single year.
506 00:35:53 It was the first time I met a bunch of really, really cool people
507 00:35:57 who were devoted to this process.
508 00:36:03 I was supposed to, like, embrace my femininity.
509 00:36:06 They taught us to wear makeup,
510 00:36:09 and the guys would go play football.
511 00:36:12 They would say,
512 00:36:14 "It's not that we think football's gonna make you straight,
513 00:36:16 but it will give you another way of connecting with the guys."
514 00:36:19 "And makeup's gonna give you another way of connecting with the girls
515 00:36:22 and your femininity."
516 00:36:23 That is a part of shifting things in here that's gonna shift your attractions.
517 00:36:29 Hopefully you are beginning to see some of the root causes
518 00:36:33 that can affect your sexuality and your identity, and…
519 00:36:36 You're still doing Bible studies and small groups and learning things.
520 00:36:40 But you also stay up till two in the morning,
521 00:36:42 talking, and laughing, and telling jokes.
522 00:36:44 I remember especially the late-night times when all the leaders were in bed,
523 00:36:47 and we just got to be our little queer selves, and it was,
524 00:36:50 in many ways, like, one of the few safe places
525 00:36:55 in our lives, and I know that sounds really crazy
526 00:36:58 'cause it was an Exodus International conference,
527 00:37:00 but at that time, that was what belonging looked like for us.
528 00:37:06 A lot of times, people that struggle with this always feel so alone, struggle with same-sex attraction, always feel ...
529 00:37:11 It's great to see others who've been in the same shoes.
530 00:37:13 And what do you hope to come out of this week?
531 00:37:17 A stronger person, um,
532 00:37:19 more knowledgeable in areas I still don't really get,
533 00:37:22 and I might never get, but, um, just to have more courage
534 00:37:26 to stand up and stuff.
535 00:37:31 Is this on?
536 00:37:34 I wanna invite the prayer team up. Come on up, guys.
537 00:37:38 A lot of you may be feeling pressure.
538 00:37:41 You may be feeling like you're in darkness.
539 00:37:44 But you sense that there is a hand reaching towards you.
540 00:37:48 And you want that hand to grasp you, the hand of the Lord, to pull you out,
541 00:37:52 to reveal the splendor of what He's created you to be.
542 00:37:57 Brothers and sisters, in Jesus' name, step forward,
543 00:38:01 take your rightful place in the body of Christ.
544 00:38:05 Come forward and receive prayer. Come forward and make your declaration,
545 00:38:09 that I will not go back to the darkness.
546 00:38:15 There were several speakers throughout that week,
547 00:38:18 big ex-gay names.
548 00:38:21 And they told these stories of this big conversion to Jesus,
549 00:38:25 and realizing God loved them, realizing they "didn't have to be gay,"
550 00:38:28 was how they would frame it.
551 00:38:30 There were really compelling stories.
552 00:38:34 And so I remember feeling like,
553 00:38:37 I wanna be like them. Like, I wanna be
554 00:38:38 cool, and happy, and loved by God.
555 00:38:50 You may have seen John and Anne Paulk on the cover of Newsweek.
556 00:38:54 Both former homosexuals, now married to each other.
557 00:38:57 But are there others like them?
558 00:38:59 I was active in the gay community for 13 years.
559 00:39:01 I was in it for six years,
560 00:39:03 then struggled for five years before finding true freedom.
561 00:39:05 It was 13 years for me.
562 00:39:07 Four for me, but we both walked away from it.
563 00:39:10 The whole Christian church is based on being married,
564 00:39:14 being a family man,
565 00:39:16 and having children.
566 00:39:18 I had a goal when I went to Exodus,
567 00:39:22 was to get married and be a father.
568 00:39:25 That wasn't just something I hoped someday would happen.
569 00:39:28 It was a goal I pursued with a vengeance.
570 00:39:31 Now, how do you two get together?
571 00:39:34 We were not friends at first,
572 00:39:36 because we were still in the middle of our own gender identity confusion.
573 00:39:40 But slowly we became friends,
574 00:39:42 and based out of a friendship, we fell in love.
575 00:39:44 I accepted Jesus as my savior
576 00:39:48 and, uh, and then read what the Bible had to say.
577 00:39:50 At that point, things started to change in my life.
578 00:39:53 We were taught, "You'll become friends with a woman,
579 00:39:57 you will feel safe with her,
580 00:39:59 and hopefully a sexual attraction will grow on top of that."
581 00:40:04 They would say, "You don't have to be attracted to all women."
582 00:40:07 "You only have to be attracted to one."
583 00:40:09 "Just one, 'cause that's the one you'll fall in love with,
584 00:40:12 and that's the one you're going to marry."
585 00:40:14 "Just one."
586 00:40:18 How do you undo the end?
587 00:40:20 Okay, so, you gotta do it with a different knife.
588 00:40:24 You're using a big knife.
589 00:40:26 Use a small one and just make a little V.
590 00:40:31 That takes it out. Okay?
591 00:40:33 Sorry, baby.
592 00:40:35 - That's kind of cool. -I know.
593 00:40:37 See, I'm gonna teach you about how to do some of this fancy stuff.
594 00:40:46 So here we were.
595 00:40:48 My wife wore these beautiful Talbots suits,
596 00:40:51 and wore makeup,
597 00:40:53 and looked very elegant.
598 00:40:55 And we had children, and the children were on TV with us.
599 00:41:00 In some ways, I didn't see myself as a gay person anymore.
600 00:41:05 Because to me, to be gay would mean I was having sex,
601 00:41:08 I was going to gay bars, I associated with gay people.
602 00:41:13 I based being gay on behavior.
603 00:41:16 It was the behavior that made you gay, not your feelings.
604 00:41:20 But my feelings were very much gay.
605 00:41:24 I've had a successful marriage for ten years,
606 00:41:27 have a very fulfilling emotional and sexual relationship with my wife,
607 00:41:31 have fathered two sons, so something has changed.
608 00:41:36 If I had said,
609 00:41:37 "Well, of course I'm tempted by homosexuality,"
610 00:41:41 that would have been honest.
611 00:41:44 However, I didn't feel like I could be honest,
612 00:41:47 because I'm not just sitting here representing myself.
613 00:41:50 I am representing a whole movement.
614 00:41:53 And if I say, "Well, I'm still tempted by it,"
615 00:41:56 what does that say to someone?
616 00:41:58 Do you feel like you were lying?
617 00:42:00 I did lie.
618 00:42:02 I-- See, I can say that now with no-- w-with-- with…
619 00:42:06 Well, with shame and embarrassment.
620 00:42:08 My mother came from a very domineering home…
621 00:42:10 I realized that my dishonesty hurt people.
622 00:42:15 Because I was dishonest, it caused people in the audience,
623 00:42:19 people that were struggling with homosexuality or had gay feelings,
624 00:42:23 to feel like, "There must be something wrong with me
625 00:42:26 'cause I'm not like him."
626 00:42:29 And, "He doesn't-- He's not tempted anymore."
627 00:42:32 "So if I'm tempted, I must be broken and damaged."
628 00:42:56 My story's just one of many.
629 00:42:58 So I wanted people that have similar stories to mine
630 00:43:01 to be able to share.
631 00:43:02 That's what the Freedom March gave them, a platform to share.
632 00:43:04 Because mainstream media doesn't share our types of stories.
633 00:43:10 That's why I started Freedom March, is to give them a voice.
634 00:43:15 This has only been going for six months.
635 00:43:18 That says 3,924 follows,
636 00:43:22 about 1,000 more than I even thought.
637 00:43:24 There's just so many.
638 00:43:30 Hello?
639 00:43:31 Oh, hi, Jeffrey!
640 00:43:33 I stumbled across your Facebook.
641 00:43:36 I started following your pages 'cause it was just so hopeful to me
642 00:43:39 to hear about your story and what happened to you.
643 00:43:42 And what I hope happens to my son, you know?
644 00:43:45 Wanna go ahead and tell me a little bit of what's been going on?
645 00:43:48 So we have a 20-year-old son.
646 00:43:51 He said, "I'm a transgender girl."
647 00:43:53 And I looked at him, and I said,
648 00:43:57 "You're a boy."
649 00:43:59 And he's been gone for about six months now.
650 00:44:02 And it's been really hard.
651 00:44:05 I miss him so much.
652 00:44:08 But he thinks that I'm rejecting him because I won't call him my daughter.
653 00:44:14 How can I agree with that
654 00:44:15 when, in my conscience, I believe that's a lie?
655 00:44:19 Well, I think he knows you love him.
656 00:44:22 -He just wants you… -Yeah, he does.
657 00:44:24 He wants you to do it the way he wants you to do it.
658 00:44:26 -Exactly! Exactly. -And… And sometimes…
659 00:44:29 If someone is--
660 00:44:30 If a child is going out on the road,
661 00:44:33 a parent's not going to let a semi-truck come and hit them.
662 00:44:36 If they have to yank them up, if they have to go grab them,
663 00:44:40 they're gonna get them out of the road. And that's how-- what you're trying to do.
664 00:44:44 That's right. That's confirmation to me. I appreciate that.
665 00:44:47 It's a strong spirit that wants to force you to call him a woman,
666 00:44:51 and he's not. It wants you to bow down,
667 00:44:53 and you're gonna say yes, and you have to agree with what it says.
668 00:44:56 -Don't do that. -That's what it feels like. Exactly.
669 00:44:59 I do believe, um,
670 00:45:01 that you have to stand in faith with this.
671 00:45:04 Okay.
672 00:45:17 I've been working on a book for the last year,
673 00:45:20 trying to make sense of my experience
674 00:45:24 and writing everything that happened.
675 00:45:37 When I was in Living Hope, every week we would meet in Ricky's office
676 00:45:42 to talk about all this deep, intense sexual, emotional baggage
677 00:45:48 in this one private counseling setting.
678 00:45:57 It was kind of like a normal therapy appointment in many ways
679 00:45:59 where you sit down and talk about your week
680 00:46:02 and what's going on, and then you start getting deeper
681 00:46:04 into the stuff that's really bothering you.
682 00:46:08 But there was a little more of a confessional element.
683 00:46:13 I felt like I had to tell Ricky everything,
684 00:46:15 every sexual attraction, or feeling, or crush that I might have.
685 00:46:20 I felt the need to report if I had a lesbian boss,
686 00:46:24 or lesbian customers that came in at the restaurant where I worked.
687 00:46:29 Let's say I had, like, acted out sexually with somebody else.
688 00:46:33 I would've definitely needed to have confessed that
689 00:46:36 and told all the circumstances around it,
690 00:46:38 when we first started talking, when we texted,
691 00:46:41 when we decided we were gonna do something, when we met up,
692 00:46:44 why I hadn't cut off contact,
693 00:46:46 what was going on in my life outside of it that made me turn to that.
694 00:46:51 Everything where I felt like I was falling short
695 00:46:53 of what I was supposed to be,
696 00:46:54 I felt like I had to confess that and work through it.
697 00:47:05 I'll go back and read old journal entries,
698 00:47:07 and it's all, "God forgive me for having such evil flesh."
699 00:47:11 "And the only hope for me is that God would save me from myself."
700 00:47:17 I was a teenager, and I was a really good teenager.
701 00:47:21 I just thought I was so bad.
702 00:47:42 It's my great privilege and honor to introduce our next speaker.
703 00:47:48 He's a psychologist.
704 00:47:50 He is really like a maverick in the mental health community.
705 00:47:54 He's a renegade.
706 00:47:55 Because the mental health community believes that to receive help
707 00:47:59 for unwanted same-sex attractions, that should not be allowed.
708 00:48:03 And he doesn't care what they say.
709 00:48:05 He's been treating men for unwanted same-sex attractions
710 00:48:07 for 30 years.
711 00:48:12 I remember years ago when I first started this work,
712 00:48:17 um, the guy with the homosexual problem would come in,
713 00:48:19 and they begin to see that the homosexual image
714 00:48:22 is really a defense against that inner core emptiness.
715 00:48:27 People may wrongly assume that the whole ex-gay movement
716 00:48:29 is strictly a religious thing,
717 00:48:31 but alongside the formation of Exodus
718 00:48:34 were this group of psychologists and therapists
719 00:48:37 who had made their livings
720 00:48:39 and their careers trying to cure gay people.
721 00:48:43 It was awful pseudo-psychology.
722 00:48:46 What they were saying was not based on any good science,
723 00:48:50 but Exodus was looking for some sort of respectability.
724 00:48:54 "It's not just us who believe this."
725 00:48:56 "It's actual therapists and psychiatrists who also know
726 00:48:59 that what we're saying is true."
727 00:49:01 Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is part of an organization of 500 therapists
728 00:49:05 working with gays who want to lead straight lives.
729 00:49:09 There was a symbiotic relationship between our need for credibility,
730 00:49:14 and then of course, the therapists who get clients.
731 00:49:20 Our networks were infused
732 00:49:21 with their books,
733 00:49:24 with their teachings, with their therapeutic approach.
734 00:49:30 This sounds awful, but it was a mutually…
735 00:49:32 It was a mutually beneficial business arrangement.
736 00:49:43 You're holding back. Talk to me. I want to know what you're feeling.
737 00:49:52 I'm just thinking about this person that's so broken.
738 00:49:59 - -Yourself?
739 00:50:00 -Myself. -So broken?
740 00:50:02 You feel broken?
741 00:50:06 How does it feel,
742 00:50:08 feeling broken sitting right here in front of me?
743 00:50:11 I'm looking at you. How does it feel to be broken as I look at you?
744 00:50:19 Hurtful?
745 00:50:21 Very sad?
746 00:50:22 Very sad to feel broken. -Very sad to feel broken. -
747 00:50:29 Can you feel my acceptance of you as broken?
748 00:50:34 - -What's that feel like?
749 00:50:35 Feels good.
750 00:50:37 That feels good.
751 00:50:39 I just wish I wasn't here at this time.
752 00:50:42 I mean, I wish I wasn't here in my mind right now.
753 00:50:44 -Of course. -Huh.
754 00:50:49 I feel like-- I just feel like a bad person.
755 00:50:53 I feel like…
756 00:50:55 - -Mm-hmm.
757 00:51:02 This man, what brought him into therapy was,
758 00:51:06 he was acting out with men while he was married.
759 00:51:10 Since that time,
760 00:51:11 they have done very, very well, and he has not acted out in a year
761 00:51:16 and-- and tells me he has no desire to act out,
762 00:51:20 homosexually.
763 00:51:24 Lord God, in the light of your glory,
764 00:51:27 we see the wrong we have done and the truth we have denied.
765 00:51:31 Heal us of our sin, wash us in your mercy,
766 00:51:36 and feed us with your grace
767 00:51:38 so that we may follow Your way and live out the Good News of the Gospel.
768 00:51:43 Amen.
769 00:51:44 You have received that forgiveness, and that grace, and that peace from God.
770 00:51:47 We're gonna take a moment to share that peace with one another.
771 00:51:55 Good morning!
772 00:51:59 From the time that I was 17,
773 00:52:02 Ricky was saying, "You're gonna be the next big thing."
774 00:52:06 He had a big hope for me that I was gonna carry the mantle.
775 00:52:10 And so they put me up as a poster child when I was really young.
776 00:52:16 People would come to me with these visions of, like,
777 00:52:18 "I see a stadium of 10,000 people,
778 00:52:21 and you're just preaching the Gospel and a message of hope and healing."
779 00:52:27 It was definitely a big part of my involvement
780 00:52:30 at Living Hope and Exodus,
781 00:52:31 was this idea that I was called to be the next big leader.
782 00:52:36 Please give a very warm welcome to my friend, Julie Rodgers.
783 00:52:52 I came home one day,
784 00:52:53 and I told my mom that I was a lesbian, and that I was sick of hiding it from her.
785 00:52:58 Well, she freaked out,
786 00:53:00 and, uh, she somehow got in touch with Ricky Chelette
787 00:53:04 from Living Hope Ministries. Shout out, Living Hope!
788 00:53:08 That's my people. He was actually, um…
789 00:53:10 Ricky had told Exodus leadership that I should be speaking,
790 00:53:14 and I probably spoke for them at eight to ten different conferences.
791 00:53:18 So I'd decided, by senior year high school,
792 00:53:20 I was gonna give my life to the Lord and follow him with all of my heart.
793 00:53:25 I had a really bad experience
794 00:53:30 when I was in college, involving sexual assault.
795 00:53:32 And the people in Living Hope were the only people I told about it.
796 00:53:38 I don't think they knew quite what to do with it.
797 00:53:40 But what happened was, very quickly after,
798 00:53:43 within the next year, um,
799 00:53:46 Ricky wanted me to incorporate that into my testimony.
800 00:53:49 I decided I didn't want to share that,
801 00:53:51 and I went with Ricky somewhere and, like, gave my testimony beforehand.
802 00:53:55 I decided I didn't wanna share that detail because I was like, it just didn't feel right.
803 00:53:58 I don't feel comfortable about it. This is something that's mine
804 00:54:01 that I need to work through more.
805 00:54:02 And on the way home that night, um,
806 00:54:05 he would always kind of, like, give me pointers,
807 00:54:07 and he was like, "You know, you did a really good job
808 00:54:09 sharing your testimony, um,
809 00:54:12 but I just really regret that you left out the part about the rape."
810 00:54:16 And I was like,
811 00:54:19 "I didn't feel like talking about it."
812 00:54:20 And he was like, "I just think it kind of removes some of the power
813 00:54:24 from your testimony."
814 00:54:26 And he actually, um, ended up taking advantage of me,
815 00:54:30 sexually, that night
816 00:54:31 when we went back to his apartment, he-- he… …essentially ra-- raping me.
817 00:54:37 I ended up telling the story,
818 00:54:39 but I remember feeling, like, so angry
819 00:54:41 that all of these really intimate experiences of my life
820 00:54:46 were being orchestrated and put together in a way that pushed in a narrative,
821 00:54:53 "Men are bad, and I hate men,
822 00:54:55 and because of abuse, I have turned to women."
823 00:54:59 You let that happen?
824 00:55:03 I tried to believe men could be trusted, and that happens?
825 00:55:06 I'm done with this!
826 00:55:10 ♪ What eyes could look on ♪Matt Redman - Holy
827 00:55:14 ♪ Your glorious face ♪
828 00:55:18 ♪ Shining like the sun ♪
829 00:55:26 Looking back, I definitely wish I hadn't been exploited in that way,
830 00:55:31 and put up as a prop at way too young of an age,
831 00:55:33 when I was really emotionally vulnerable.
832 00:55:51 Oh my gosh, look who it is!
833 00:55:54 Three of my favorite people.
834 00:55:56 How are you, boy?
835 00:55:58 Oh my gosh, what took y'all so long?
836 00:56:04 - -Hi, precious!
837 00:56:09 This is the church.
838 00:56:11 This is ecclesia. This is the church.
839 00:56:21 The article from yesterday is, like, going through the roof.
840 00:56:24 People from all over the country are clicking on it.
841 00:56:27 -That's amazing! -Yes.
842 00:56:28 -Word's getting out there. -Amen.
843 00:56:30 It's blowing up.
844 00:56:32 -Mmm! -Yes, I love it!
845 00:56:34 Hey, y'all. We're about to start worship.
846 00:56:37 They're about to start worship.
847 00:56:40 Okay, everybody be quiet please!
848 00:56:43 Quiet.
849 00:56:44 While I was here in 2017 was when the thought came to me,
850 00:56:47 "We need to have a march for people who left LGBTQ lifestyles."
851 00:56:52 The Freedom March is just all about y'all's stories.
852 00:56:55 It's not just about my story. It's about celebrating all your stories.
853 00:56:59 Also, the Lord put on my heart to say, "Be obedient in whatever He tells you."
854 00:57:03 When you step out in obedience once, He'll trust you more and more and more,
855 00:57:08 and you will just continue to grow. And a lot of times, it's the little things
856 00:57:10 He watches us on at home, the little things.
857 00:57:14 Are you being obedient with something He tells you little
858 00:57:17 and not just a big ministry thing? It's just every day being obedient.
859 00:57:20 'Cause He said those that love Him will obey Him.
860 00:57:26 I want you guys to understand what's happening.
861 00:57:29 This is the sound of unity.
862 00:57:30 This is the sound of a warrior, and that means business.
863 00:57:35 ♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
864 00:57:36 ♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
865 00:57:39 ♪ Hey-na-hey ♪
866 00:57:43 ♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪
867 00:57:46 ♪ I'm a warrior ♪
868 00:57:47 ♪ I'm a warrior, I'm a warrior… ♪
869 00:57:50 You prophesied of this Freedom March.
870 00:57:52 -It belongs to you, Father. - Yes!
871 00:57:54 Right now, what's happening is you are bringing your warriors
872 00:57:58 in formation!
873 00:58:03 - -♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
874 00:58:05 ♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
875 00:58:08 ♪ Bring Your reformation ♪
876 00:58:10 ♪ To this nation ♪
877 00:58:12 ♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
878 00:58:14 ♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
879 00:58:16 ♪ Is roaring, is roaring ♪
880 00:58:19 ♪ Is roaring for me ♪
881 00:58:21 ♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪
882 00:58:23 ♪ The Lion of Judah ♪
883 00:58:25 ♪ Is roaring, is roaring… ♪
884 00:59:39 I'm gonna read from the section about a group gathering at Living Hope.
885 00:59:45 How old were you during this time?
886 00:59:47 I was 17 when I started it,
887 00:59:49 and then this goes pretty much like up through the end of college,
888 00:59:52 I would say.
889 00:59:55 "The first time I burned myself,
890 00:59:56 I was sitting on a curb outside of the church after a Living Hope meeting."
891 01:00:00 "As my cigarette burned low, without giving it much thought,
892 01:00:03 I shoved the burning end of it into my shoulder and listened
893 01:00:06 as the skin on my left arm sizzled."
894 01:00:09 "Shortly after that night, I sat alone in my room,
895 01:00:12 lost in a whirlwind of fear, agony, and self-loathing."
896 01:00:15 "That's when I remembered the cigarette burn
897 01:00:17 and the wave of detachment that washed through my body
898 01:00:20 the moment the fire seared my skin."
899 01:00:22 "After scanning my room for ment-- metal objects that would heat under fire,
900 01:00:26 I landed on a quarter."
901 01:00:27 "Clamping the quarter with tweezers, I plunged it into the flame of a lighter,
902 01:00:31 my heart rate rising as the coin heated up."
903 01:00:34 "I inhaled, flexed my left arm, and pressed the quarter deep in my flesh
904 01:00:38 until the skin broke and the pain numbed."
905 01:00:41 "I repeated the process at least 20 times that afternoon,
906 01:00:45 searing straight lines into my shoulder, each a few inches wide."
907 01:00:50 "For weeks, I engaged in a routine of applying Neosporin to the wounds
908 01:00:53 every morning and evening."
909 01:00:55 "We were safe in those moments, me and my body."
910 01:00:58 "I could roll up my shirt sleeve, expose my wounds,
911 01:01:01 and be met with tenderness and compassion."
912 01:01:04 "In the years that followed, when the anguish became unbearable,
913 01:01:07 I would return to this routine,
914 01:01:09 burning straight lines into my shoulders and tending to the wounds to self-soothe."
915 01:01:15 "I've heard depression described as anger turned inward."
916 01:01:18 "Perhaps that's what I was doing in my dorm room all those years ago."
917 01:01:21 "I took the rage I felt about living in a body that couldn't be submitted
918 01:01:25 into the kind of body it was supposed to be,
919 01:01:27 a straight body, a feminine body, a good Christian body,
920 01:01:31 and I lit it on fire."
921 01:01:37 - I love you, babe. - I love you.
922 01:01:40 I'm sorry.
923 01:01:43 Yeah, it's kind of intense.
924 01:01:49 Yeah, it is.
925 01:02:09 Over the years,
926 01:02:10 it was increasingly harder to keep my homosexuality--
927 01:02:13 keeping the lid on it.
928 01:02:16 Primarily, it was through use of pornography,
929 01:02:19 which my wife would discover, and it would very much trouble her.
930 01:02:24 I can understand why it would trouble her.
931 01:02:27 It was threatening.
932 01:02:28 It was disobedient.
933 01:02:31 It meant-- Did it mean I was reverting back?
934 01:02:36 I remember her turning to me one day and saying,
935 01:02:38 "John, why can't you just obey?"
936 01:02:42 "Why can't you make the Godly decision?"
937 01:02:47 And I remember saying to her,
938 01:02:50 "I-- I-- don't know."
939 01:02:57 I don't know why it didn't go away.
940 01:02:59 I don't know how to make it go away.
941 01:03:02 It's getting worse. The older I get, it's getting worse.
942 01:03:10 I found myself surrounded by people who loved me,
943 01:03:16 my wife and my sons,
944 01:03:18 and I felt all alone.
945 01:03:22 I…
946 01:03:25 ached to be loved and to love a man.
947 01:03:32 And I had gotten to the point where
948 01:03:36 the root causes of all this
949 01:03:39 didn't matter anymore.
950 01:03:41 The right or wrong of this, biblically, didn't matter anymore.
951 01:03:47 I thought, "If I don't go on this journey to figure out who I am,
952 01:03:52 I will take my life."
953 01:03:54 I will take my life.
954 01:04:16 I was in Washington D.C. for meetings,
955 01:04:19 and I started drinking.
956 01:04:24 I got intoxicated,
957 01:04:25 and I went into a gay bar.
958 01:04:29 Someone came up to me and recognized who I was.
959 01:04:33 I mean, really, what was I thinking?
960 01:04:37 There was a gay activist that was called. He was outside the bar.
961 01:04:41 And he took a photograph of me with my hand in front of my face
962 01:04:45 and me running down the street.
963 01:05:05 It was a Monday morning.
964 01:05:09 And I got into my office, and I knew that John was there.
965 01:05:13 He was a friend of mine.
966 01:05:14 So he comes into my office,
967 01:05:16 and I thought we would just chat and catch up.
968 01:05:19 And he was shaking. He sat on my chair. He barely looked at me.
969 01:05:23 I knew this was gonna come out immediately, so I lied.
970 01:05:28 I said I didn't know it was a gay bar, and I had gone in there to use the bathroom.
971 01:05:32 Well, any person with half a brain realized, "Come on, John."
972 01:05:37 He knew it was much bigger than what he was telling us.
973 01:05:41 And I felt so bad for him
974 01:05:43 because he was leaning over in the chair with his cup of coffee,
975 01:05:47 which I'll never forget, and saying,
976 01:05:51 "I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
977 01:05:54 And that's what he kept saying, "I hope I didn't hurt the movement."
978 01:05:59 I was so…
979 01:06:02 like, "What in the world?"
980 01:06:05 And not within five minutes, the phone started ringing off the wall.
981 01:06:10 Everybody just thought John was amazing, that he hung the moon.
982 01:06:15 He was successful. He was eloquent. He had a great testimony.
983 01:06:20 And just like any prominent, charismatic leader,
984 01:06:24 who doesn't live up to their audience's ideals,
985 01:06:28 when he was busted running from the gay bar,
986 01:06:31 it sent everybody into a shock.
987 01:06:47 My wife had had enough.
988 01:06:49 She filed legal separation papers.
989 01:06:52 She divorced me.
990 01:06:56 I had never been honest a day in my life.
991 01:07:01 It was lie, after lie, after lie, after lie.
992 01:07:16 When John left the movement, it was very memorable
993 01:07:19 because of his impact on the movement as a whole, um,
994 01:07:24 but as far as the functioning of Exodus, it continued unhindered.
995 01:07:30 Um, yes, my name is Randy Thomas.
996 01:07:31 I'm the executive vice president for Exodus.
997 01:07:33 We have almost 200 member agencies in Canada and the United States.
998 01:07:39 Exodus started getting more political in 2003.
999 01:07:43 We started traveling to D.C. to participate in meetings and events
1000 01:07:49 with religious-right leaders and power brokers.
1001 01:07:53 They knew that they had a problem humanizing the issues.
1002 01:07:58 And we were there to help them fix that problem.
1003 01:08:02 They couldn't say,
1004 01:08:04 "Our views are healthier than gay-- LGBTQ views,"
1005 01:08:08 but they can.
1006 01:08:14 There was a huge push
1007 01:08:16 to do everything that we could while Bush was in office
1008 01:08:19 and both houses of Congress were Republican-controlled
1009 01:08:23 to stave off LGBTQ rights
1010 01:08:28 as much as possible, and maybe forever.
1011 01:08:30 Marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal,
1012 01:08:33 and the job of the president is to drive policy toward the ideal.
1013 01:08:40 Just after midnight,
1014 01:08:41 thousands celebrated what was once just a dream in Massachusetts.
1015 01:08:46 The most important investment Exodus made into politics
1016 01:08:52 was over the marriage battle.
1017 01:08:54 That was so important to us
1018 01:08:57 because we were promoting an idealized version of life.
1019 01:09:02 Gay marriage felt like an existential threat
1020 01:09:06 against our idealized goals for people in our ministries.
1021 01:09:12 They were seeing the culture say it's healthy and good
1022 01:09:17 to marry the person that you're truly attracted to and love.
1023 01:09:20 Well, we had to counter that message.
1024 01:09:23 You wanna know why I fight so hard for the marriage issue?
1025 01:09:28 Because marriage transcends what we understand of it
1026 01:09:32 and bears the image of God.
1027 01:09:34 Same-sex couples have been getting legally married in California,
1028 01:09:38 but the ceremonies will stop if Proposition 8 passes,
1029 01:09:42 amending California's constitution
1030 01:09:44 so it defines marriage as only between one man
1031 01:09:48 and one woman.
1032 01:09:50 I started working for Exodus in the summer of 2008,
1033 01:09:54 so right before the elections.
1034 01:09:58 And I went to work on the Prop 8 campaign immediately.
1035 01:10:05 I was invited to this event,
1036 01:10:07 and they had cameras there
1037 01:10:09 so that people in churches all across
1038 01:10:13 the state of California could watch this event that we're putting on.
1039 01:10:17 I don't mean to be crass, but men and women's body parts
1040 01:10:20 fit together to become a single organism…
1041 01:10:25 …for…
1042 01:10:31 …for the purpose of creating children.
1043 01:10:34 If sexual orientation
1044 01:10:37 or sexual attractions were the basis upon which we were allowed to marry,
1045 01:10:42 then pedophiles would have to be allowed to marry six-, seven-, eight-year-olds.
1046 01:10:48 Mothers and sons,
1047 01:10:50 sisters and brothers, any-- any combination would have to be allowed.
1048 01:10:54 A big part of the message was the slippery slope argument.
1049 01:10:59 Okay, so you're saying two women or two men now,
1050 01:11:02 but then what's it gonna become?
1051 01:11:05 It's just knowing the fears that people have.
1052 01:11:10 What is it that I can say that is really going to scare them,
1053 01:11:15 if they're on the fence?
1054 01:11:18 And a lot of people were on the fence
1055 01:11:21 and just sort of ambivalent one way or the other, and you think,
1056 01:11:24 "Oh well, you know, who cares how this is gonna affect me?"
1057 01:11:27 "This is how it's gonna affect you."
1058 01:11:33 Churches made a point of saying, "You are voting yes on this."
1059 01:11:38 I'm convinced that this is what pushed Prop 8 over,
1060 01:11:42 why it passed.
1061 01:11:44 It's the kindness of God that leads us to repent.
1062 01:11:49 It's the kindness of God…
1063 01:11:50 So many churches coming together.
1064 01:11:53 I've never seen something like that happen before,
1065 01:11:56 ever, before Prop 8.
1066 01:12:11 When Prop 8 passed,
1067 01:12:12 I was not an Obama supporter at the time.
1068 01:12:15 Back then, I was like, "Ugh, Obama won."
1069 01:12:17 You know?
1070 01:12:18 But Prop 8 passed!
1071 01:12:20 You know, and I was talking up a good game on social media.
1072 01:12:25 Thousands marched in California,
1073 01:12:27 protesting the election night passage of Proposition 8.
1074 01:12:30 A massive protest on the passage of Proposition 8,
1075 01:12:33 the ban on same-sex marriage.
1076 01:12:36 I had never felt such a sense of…
1077 01:12:39 of being less of a person.
1078 01:12:40 - You're crying. -Yeah.
1079 01:12:43 I'm just ashamed of our state.
1080 01:12:47 But I'll never forget that night, watching the news.
1081 01:13:11 Seeing my community…
1082 01:13:15 Back then, I didn't realize it, but I knew in my heart.
1083 01:13:18 Watching my community take to the streets…
1084 01:13:23 and mourning the passage of Prop 8.
1085 01:13:28 When I looked at the TV,
1086 01:13:30 and a voice inside me said,
1087 01:13:32 "How could you do that to your own people?"
1088 01:13:41 And I saw these men crying.
1089 01:13:45 And I knew that their dreams had just been shattered.
1090 01:13:50 And I couldn't talk the same way after that.
1091 01:14:18 After Prop 8, I started having extreme anxiety,
1092 01:14:23 panic attacks.
1093 01:14:25 We were driving down to an Exodus conference,
1094 01:14:29 and we were probably two hours into the drive,
1095 01:14:32 and I started having a panic attack.
1096 01:14:36 Every time I'm going to do something that's related to Exodus
1097 01:14:41 or ex-gay things,
1098 01:14:43 I'm gonna have these panic attacks.
1099 01:14:45 I still didn't know.
1100 01:14:47 I didn't know why.
1101 01:14:54 I met with this therapist,
1102 01:14:56 and she said, "Obviously you have trauma here,
1103 01:14:59 because you're exhibiting symptoms that are more like PTSD."
1104 01:15:05 And that's when it really started to dawn on me.
1105 01:15:08 There's something wrong.
1106 01:15:10 So it wasn't even conscious.
1107 01:15:12 It was more physical at first,
1108 01:15:14 where my body just would not allow me to continue.
1109 01:15:18 When we're talking about the ex-gay movement,
1110 01:15:21 it's wanting to be part of a group.
1111 01:15:24 It's wanting to belong,
1112 01:15:26 and here are my people.
1113 01:15:28 Here are people who have the same struggles as I do.
1114 01:15:31 So you're going to abide by the rules of the group.
1115 01:15:36 And even if there's shame involved,
1116 01:15:38 it seems like a small price to pay for what you're getting.
1117 01:15:42 That was the major theme throughout our work…
1118 01:15:45 Yeah.
1119 01:15:46 …to understand shame.
1120 01:15:48 Shame being this inherent feeling of, "I am wrong."
1121 01:15:54 -Right. -"I am bad."
1122 01:15:55 I think we all struggle all the time with trying to manage that.
1123 01:16:00 You're in a place now in your life where nobody's gonna tell you what to do,
1124 01:16:05 and no one's gonna tell you who you are.
1125 01:16:09 It's so different.
1126 01:16:11 'Cause I've spent nine years in this room,
1127 01:16:14 and I've changed so much in that time.
1128 01:16:18 I'm nothing like what I was.
1129 01:16:20 Nothing.
1130 01:16:24 The puzzle pieces were coming together.
1131 01:16:28 Even with the same-sex attractions in myself,
1132 01:16:32 those never went away.
1133 01:16:35 Is that change, then?
1134 01:16:37 Because before I had been defining change on actions alone.
1135 01:16:41 Then I'm thinking, "Well, did that really go away?"
1136 01:16:46 No! I just changed
1137 01:16:49 how-- what my connections with people were.
1138 01:16:53 And I just avoided things.
1139 01:16:57 But did I really change?
1140 01:17:03 - -And I gotta move.
1141 01:17:07 I would classify myself as bisexual.
1142 01:17:11 I love my husband.
1143 01:17:13 Been married for a long time.
1144 01:17:16 And then I knew, okay, then I have the capacity for both.
1145 01:17:23 You know, I-- I'm attracted to both.
1146 01:17:27 - There you go. -Actually, that kind of works out for me.
1147 01:17:30 You're cheating because it's Mother's Day.
1148 01:17:33 Yep.
1149 01:17:52 Ugh! This is so great.
1150 01:17:53 I know! Such a great view.
1151 01:17:56 Wow. It's gonna be so gorgeous.
1152 01:17:59 Wow.
1153 01:18:01 You guys will walk out as a couple,
1154 01:18:04 and then if you're thinking about doing formals at the high altar,
1155 01:18:07 we'll stash you away, and then let your guests clear out.
1156 01:18:10 When cocktail hour is in full swing, you'll come back up.
1157 01:18:13 -Oh my goodness! -Yeah.
1158 01:18:14 Will you take a picture of us? We're just so excited.
1159 01:18:17 -Which way do you wanna face? -We'll do both!
1160 01:18:20 When I was still involved at Living Hope,
1161 01:18:23 I was severely, severely, severely depressed,
1162 01:18:26 but I didn't know why I was overwhelmed or sad.
1163 01:18:32 And I always felt like such a freak.
1164 01:18:34 Like, oh, like, "What's wrong with me?"
1165 01:18:36 "Like, I'm a total maniac, like, burning up and hurting my own body,"
1166 01:18:40 and this and that, because I didn't see it
1167 01:18:44 as a result of, like, the system and the culture
1168 01:18:48 around me that made me hate myself.
1169 01:18:51 I continued to believe that God will help me live a life
1170 01:18:54 of purity and holiness.
1171 01:18:58 I was speaking at Exodus conferences and doing writing on their blog,
1172 01:19:03 and I was seen as a leader within the movement.
1173 01:19:13 While the gay rights movement breaks historic ground,
1174 01:19:15 the ranks of defectors from the ex-gay movement,
1175 01:19:18 so-called "ex-ex-gays,"
1176 01:19:20 are growing and growing louder.
1177 01:19:23 Ex-gay, no way! Don't believe a word they say! Ex-gay…
1178 01:19:28 Michael Bussee is helping them find their voice.
1179 01:19:31 Decades after founding Exodus, he has found a new calling.
1180 01:19:36 I retired a few years ago and now pretty much deal
1181 01:19:39 with folks who come out of reparative therapy programs.
1182 01:19:41 I have a couple of online groups I do on Facebook.
1183 01:19:45 For the past several decades, I've been an outspoken former leader,
1184 01:19:48 trying to educate people about the harm that these programs do
1185 01:19:52 and also supporting survivors as they speak out.
1186 01:19:58 If somebody left, we didn't hear from them again.
1187 01:20:03 The way they were talked about internally was like,
1188 01:20:05 "Oh, they've gone to the dark side, they've given in to the flesh."
1189 01:20:08 Just this kind of this crazy talk of like, they are gone. They are dead to us.
1190 01:20:14 Exodus always tried to distance themselves from the stories of survivors.
1191 01:20:19 They tried to say, "Oh, those are the outliers."
1192 01:20:22 "Yeah, in every organization, there are some people who are harmed
1193 01:20:25 or who-- but that's not the vast majority of people."
1194 01:20:30 But the press started picking up these stories
1195 01:20:32 of people that had been harmed by ex-gay programs.
1196 01:20:36 That made it harder for Exodus to ignore them.
1197 01:20:41 I wrote a blog post one day
1198 01:20:45 to publish on Exodus's site.
1199 01:20:47 And I basically, toward the end of it, spoke to ex-gay survivors and said like,
1200 01:20:52 "I'm so sorry…"
1201 01:20:54 "I'm so sorry that you went through this,
1202 01:20:55 and I'm so sorry that you didn't hear that God loves you, like, right now,
1203 01:20:59 like exactly where you are."
1204 01:21:00 I said at the end of it, "I hope someday I can hear your stories."
1205 01:21:05 Michael Bussee reached out to me,
1206 01:21:06 and he was like, "You said you wanted to hear the stories of survivors."
1207 01:21:10 "I can create a Facebook group for us to have some sort of exchange."
1208 01:21:14 And so I was like, okay, like, I meant that.
1209 01:21:17 Seventy-five people agreed to be a part of it.
1210 01:21:20 So many of them were really gracious to me,
1211 01:21:22 considering what I represented, being connected to Exodus.
1212 01:21:26 And yet they were very honest about how much ex-gay teaching
1213 01:21:30 had ruined their lives.
1214 01:21:34 What ends up happening is
1215 01:21:35 Lisa Ling reaches out to Exodus
1216 01:21:39 and Michael Bussee and is like, "I heard about this group going on."
1217 01:21:42 "Would y'all be interested in doing it on air?"
1218 01:21:46 I was the president of Exodus at the time.
1219 01:21:49 And I thought it was important that I listened to their stories.
1220 01:21:54 They came up with… with a group of people, um,
1221 01:21:57 some of whom I'd had direct contact with, most of whom I hadn't.
1222 01:22:02 We met in a church basement
1223 01:22:04 and had the most intense
1224 01:22:08 group therapy encounter that I have ever been through.
1225 01:22:19 Each survivor here comes
1226 01:22:21 from a different level. Some of them are fresh out.
1227 01:22:22 Some of us have been surviving for 12 years,
1228 01:22:26 waiting for a moment to look at you and say, "You are responsible
1229 01:22:29 because you've had opportunities to see our wounds before,
1230 01:22:32 and you've not done anything about it."
1231 01:22:34 The irony of it is
1232 01:22:36 I feel I lost my soul in trying to do the right thing all the time.
1233 01:22:40 Not from doing the wrong thing, not from "giving in."
1234 01:22:42 I lost my soul because I did the right thing.
1235 01:22:46 And these kids,
1236 01:22:48 they're killing themselves
1237 01:22:50 because of things that continue to be said to them,
1238 01:22:53 that they're not good enough,
1239 01:22:55 and that they're not beautiful as they are.
1240 01:22:57 And I am not okay with that, and I can be silent no longer.
1241 01:23:06 It was absolutely devastating, and I think for me, it was the first time
1242 01:23:11 that I identified more with the survivors sharing their story
1243 01:23:15 than I did with anybody from Exodus.
1244 01:23:21 These stories of deep, deep pain
1245 01:23:25 shook me down to my core.
1246 01:23:27 Feeling like they were in many ways
1247 01:23:32 sharing my story.
1248 01:23:38 I remember feeling like I was sitting on the wrong side of the circle.
1249 01:23:43 And I was just like,
1250 01:23:44 I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't do this anymore.
1251 01:23:47 Like, I can't be a part of it. This is just so toxic.
1252 01:23:54 When the Lisa Ling show came out,
1253 01:23:57 I knew then that Exodus was death,
1254 01:24:00 and it was destruction.
1255 01:24:03 Because those survivors were looking at us right in the face.
1256 01:24:08 And we could no longer excuse it away. We could no longer deny it.
1257 01:24:13 And that Exodus could no longer continue
1258 01:24:17 to promote the idea of change
1259 01:24:20 because that was a lie.
1260 01:24:29 Exodus was started in 1976 to create a community together,
1261 01:24:36 but we've hurt people.
1262 01:24:39 And it is for these reasons
1263 01:24:41 Exodus International,
1264 01:24:43 the oldest and largest Christian ministry dealing with faith and homosexuality,
1265 01:24:47 is closing its doors… …after three-plus decades of ministry.
1266 01:25:11 Once Exodus was ending,
1267 01:25:13 I started trying to build a life away from Living Hope.
1268 01:25:18 I felt the loss of my community,
1269 01:25:20 but I had to leave to get healthier.
1270 01:25:25 I came to realize that I was really needy and unhealthy
1271 01:25:27 because there were zero people in my life
1272 01:25:31 who ever just said like, "You're okay exactly the way you are,
1273 01:25:35 and we love you, and God loves you, and you don't have to change a thing."
1274 01:25:40 Being able to move away from Living Hope and ex-gay teaching
1275 01:25:44 and admit that I was gay
1276 01:25:47 and that that was actually, like, a good thing,
1277 01:25:49 for the first time, I started to feel light, and happy,
1278 01:25:53 and like God loved me and liked me, and it was just all fine, and I was fine.
1279 01:26:01 We've talked about how Christian communities
1280 01:26:05 are where we've experienced so much pain and trauma in our lives.
1281 01:26:07 At the same time,
1282 01:26:08 this faith has also been a huge source of our healing.
1283 01:26:12 When I interact with Jesus,
1284 01:26:15 and see who Jesus was and how Jesus lived,
1285 01:26:18 I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing."
1286 01:26:20 And so it's been really important for me to sort of separate, I guess, like,
1287 01:26:23 Jesus from the Christians who hurt me.
1288 01:26:26 I was here this last Friday for a service they did, um,
1289 01:26:29 honoring and remembering Matthew Shepard.
1290 01:26:31 And I have never seen,
1291 01:26:33 I have absolutely never seen so many queer people in a church.
1292 01:26:39 All these people who have carried so much shame, and so much humiliation,
1293 01:26:45 and physical abuse,
1294 01:26:47 and all these things, um, got to come into a church,
1295 01:26:51 probably for the first time in decades,
1296 01:26:54 and to hear, "You specifically…"
1297 01:26:57 "You gay person, you bisexual person, you transgender person,"
1298 01:27:01 like, "You are welcome here, and you are wanted here,
1299 01:27:05 and we honor your lives, and this is a safe place for you."
1300 01:27:09 Having the grace to find this kind of place,
1301 01:27:12 who's gonna speak that blessing over us and to us,
1302 01:27:17 um, is the deepest source of healing we could ever receive.
1303 01:27:34 After Exodus ended,
1304 01:27:37 the same work that was going on under Exodus,
1305 01:27:41 all those ministries,
1306 01:27:43 including Ricky and Living Hope, continued doing the work.
1307 01:27:49 What I do is deal with folks,
1308 01:27:50 for the most part, who are struggling particularly with homosexuality.
1309 01:27:54 - -And spending my days, spending my days
1310 01:27:57 talking with people who are sexually broken,
1311 01:28:01 that there is freedom in Christ. There is freedom…
1312 01:28:04 So, conversion therapy, it appears to be flourishing and thriving
1313 01:28:07 in Christian communities where I come from.
1314 01:28:11 A group accused of promoting a controversial practice
1315 01:28:14 aimed at changing sexual orientation
1316 01:28:17 kicked off a conference in San Diego today.
1317 01:28:20 When we shut down Exodus, most of the old-time leadership
1318 01:28:24 decided to continue on
1319 01:28:26 and try to take as many people as they could with them.
1320 01:28:30 And that's how the Restored Hope Network was born.
1321 01:28:33 You have to tell us about Restored Hope Network.
1322 01:28:36 Restored Hope Network is a network of ministries of people like me,
1323 01:28:42 who have left homosexuality,
1324 01:28:44 and who want to share how to do so with others.
1325 01:28:47 And that's exactly why I do this.
1326 01:28:49 It's to get the word out that there is hope.
1327 01:28:53 My dad and I had a strained relationship, not from a lack of love for each other,
1328 01:28:59 but rather an inability for us to really, truly connect in the way that I needed,
1329 01:29:03 leading to doubt and confusion.
1330 01:29:06 At the age of 14, I came out to my parents…
1331 01:29:10 I mean, it's such indoctrination.
1332 01:29:13 All of the lingo that they use,
1333 01:29:17 and the pattern of the testimony,
1334 01:29:19 and even the pattern of their lives.
1335 01:29:23 Seeing Katie walk down the aisle…
1336 01:29:31 It was a day that I'll never forget.
1337 01:29:36 And our wedding day was a true testament to Jesus Christ.
1338 01:29:44 In the past five years or so,
1339 01:29:48 there have been this mass defection of leaders,
1340 01:29:52 but there are new people taking up the torch.
1341 01:29:56 And it's not dying the way that we thought it would
1342 01:30:00 or think it should.
1343 01:30:13 There's some of the things that the older ex-LGBTQ ministries do
1344 01:30:17 that we don't do.
1345 01:30:21 It's just a different way.
1346 01:30:25 I think it's attracted
1347 01:30:27 this younger generation just going out on the streets.
1348 01:30:36 Instead of being behind a conference,
1349 01:30:38 go out on the streets.
1350 01:30:40 Instead of being behind the church building,
1351 01:30:42 go out to the people. Like we're just doing it a different way.
1352 01:30:51 Hello, everybody!
1353 01:30:54 - Hello, everybody! -
1354 01:30:57 This is our second annual Freedom March.
1355 01:31:02 Some of us have traveled all across the world.
1356 01:31:05 All these different faces, all these different races
1357 01:31:07 to come and make a stand,
1358 01:31:10 to come and let people know that freedom is here.
1359 01:31:12 Give it up for the leader of Freedom March, Jeffrey McCall.
1360 01:31:21 The vision of this is just sharing testimonies
1361 01:31:23 of people that left the LGBTQ lifestyles,
1362 01:31:26 that had an encounter with God.
1363 01:31:28 And we're here together to share our stories.
1364 01:31:32 Prayer works!
1365 01:31:34 And I stand here proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ,
1366 01:31:36 that He is Lord, and I love Jesus!
1367 01:31:39 Have you laid on the floor and said, "Jesus, take this away from me
1368 01:31:42 because I wanna follow you, Jesus. I wanna be your son or daughter."
1369 01:31:46 Lord Jesus, there is freedom in the name of Jesus Christ.
1370 01:31:50 I believe that something is being birthed out of here today.
1371 01:31:55 Father, I ask that you will unite us as overcomers.
1372 01:31:59 Lord, we want you back in the forefronts of America.
1373 01:32:02 In Jesus' name, we thank you, Father.
1374 01:32:05 In Jesus' name.
1375 01:32:25 Shortly after coming out,
1376 01:32:27 a gay person
1377 01:32:30 said very bluntly and directly that I had blood on my hands.
1378 01:32:34 He said, "What do you think about the blood on your hands?"
1379 01:32:39 I said, "Right now…
1380 01:32:43 all I know is I'm afraid to look down at my hands."
1381 01:32:51 As a leader, I had been trained to acknowledge the loss
1382 01:32:56 but to rationalize it away, to go into denial.
1383 01:33:00 And I hate that I did that.
1384 01:33:03 And for many people who don't commit suicide,
1385 01:33:07 we're killing ourselves internally
1386 01:33:10 by not embracing who God created us to be.
1387 01:33:13 Our Creator, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.
1388 01:33:19 Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done,
1389 01:33:22 on Earth as it is in heaven.
1390 01:33:25 Give us this day our daily bread,
1391 01:33:28 and forgive us our trespasses,
1392 01:33:30 as we forgive those who trespass against us.
1393 01:33:35 I can't look back and say,
1394 01:33:38 "This deserves forgiveness," or "I deserve forgiveness,"
1395 01:33:41 'cause I don't.
1396 01:33:43 What I did was wrong.
1397 01:33:44 It was so wrong.
1398 01:33:50 When you finally realize how much harm you've done,
1399 01:33:54 it's a crushing realization.
1400 01:33:57 It's a devastating feeling.
1401 01:34:02 But apology only goes so far.
1402 01:34:05 You really can't go back and give people back those years
1403 01:34:08 that they wasted trying to be ex-gay.
1404 01:34:10 All you can do is, from this point forward,
1405 01:34:13 speak out against it, and speak out strongly against it.
1406 01:34:16 Talk directly to the camera.
1407 01:34:18 I want you to talk to your former colleagues
1408 01:34:20 about what they're still doing with this type of work.
1409 01:34:23 Well, I used to be a true believer, just like you did.
1410 01:34:27 I mean, I absolutely thought that what we were doing was right,
1411 01:34:31 but all it does is crush souls.
1412 01:34:34 It crushes peoples' lives.
1413 01:34:36 I can't stand that I was a part of it,
1414 01:34:39 and I would hope that you would have the empathy and compassion
1415 01:34:43 to see that all it does is damage.
1416 01:35:27 Okay, take a deep breath.
1417 01:35:31 We've come together in the presence of God to witness
1418 01:35:35 and bless the joining together
1419 01:35:38 of Amanda and Julie in holy matrimony.
1420 01:35:41 I suffered trauma,
1421 01:35:44 and it definitely resulted in extreme forms of self-hatred,
1422 01:35:49 but I survived.
1423 01:35:51 I'm really happy, and I found somebody that I love so much.
1424 01:35:55 And we're doing well, but not everybody is.
1425 01:36:00 Ex-gay leaders are doing what they believe is the best thing for all of us.
1426 01:36:06 The problem is that they think whole and healthy means
1427 01:36:10 trying to fit ourselves into something we can't be.
1428 01:36:14 I wish that they would listen to us
1429 01:36:16 and believe us when we say
1430 01:36:19 that we really are so much healthier and happier
1431 01:36:23 now that we're no longer a part of that.
1432 01:36:25 God created you for communion with one another.
1433 01:36:30 And the highest expression of this communion will be your marriage.
1434 01:36:35 You may kiss your bride.
1435 01:36:47 Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thanks, Julie.
1436 01:37:03 As long as homophobia exists in this world,
1437 01:37:06 some version of Exodus will emerge.
1438 01:37:11 Because it's not the organization,
1439 01:37:13 and it's not even the methods that they use.
1440 01:37:15 It's the underlying belief
1441 01:37:18 that there is something intrinsically disordered
1442 01:37:20 and change-worthy about being gay.
1443 01:37:24 As long as that continues to exist,
1444 01:37:27 there will be some form of this.
