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1 00:01:01 How long you been working on this project, Dan?
2 00:01:04 Five years.
3 00:01:07 Five.
4 00:01:10 Every day? Nights, weekends?
5 00:01:14 It's been very consuming.
6 00:01:20 Do you have a relationship, Dan? Family?
7 00:01:23 Just trying to get a better sense of who you are.
8 00:01:27 When it started, I was seeing someone, but, you know,
9 00:01:30 with the nature of the work and the hours...
10 00:01:33 I wasn't a very good partner.
11 00:01:39 Five years, and it could all go away.
12 00:01:43 Just vanish in the face of these allegations.
13 00:01:46 I can certainly imagine
14 00:01:48 an ambitious young man like yourself spends years
15 00:01:51 with his head buried in some terrible spectacle,
16 00:01:54 gets frustrated with the process,
17 00:01:56 sees an opportunity to get the truth out faster,
18 00:01:59 maybe crosses a line.
19 00:02:01 I'm assuming this is the most important thing
20 00:02:02 - you've ever been a part of. - I didn't do it.
21 00:02:03 Or I can see an equally ambitious senator
22 00:02:05 encouraging you to do something.
23 00:02:07 Now would be a good time to tell me.
24 00:02:08 That did not happen. What I did, I did on my own.
25 00:02:12 I acted alone.
26 00:02:13 You ever sleep, bro?
27 00:02:15 I used to. Got in the way of work.
28 00:02:18 Anything in that bag contain the real names
29 00:02:20 of CIA officers, assets or partners,
30 00:02:22 or any information that would be in violation
31 00:02:24 of the agreement between the Central Intelligence Agency
32 00:02:27 and the United States Senate?
33 00:02:30 - Have a good night, Jay. - You, too, Dan.
34 00:02:34 So, you did steal the document?
35 00:02:35 I did not steal it. I relocated it.
36 00:02:37 Everyone has their own words.
37 00:02:38 The language is built to choose sides.
38 00:02:40 Now, why did you relocate it?
39 00:02:44 They could send you to jail, Dan.
40 00:02:57 I think I should start at the beginning.
41 00:03:40 - You Dan Jones? - Yeah.
42 00:03:42 Denis McDonough.
43 00:03:43 Thank you so much for meeting me.
44 00:03:43 Come on in. Yeah. Absolutely.
45 00:03:46 So, thanks for coming in.
46 00:03:48 Tell me your story.
47 00:03:49 My second day of grad school was September 11th.
48 00:03:51 I was headed to a lecture, and everything just... stopped.
49 00:03:55 The next day, I changed all my classes to national security.
50 00:03:58 Good man.
51 00:04:00 So, what's the long-term plan?
52 00:04:02 Where do you see yourself in ten years?
53 00:04:04 Are you running for office?
54 00:04:04 No. No politics for me.
55 00:04:06 I think I'd be more effective behind the scenes,
56 00:04:08 somewhere I can really make a difference.
57 00:04:10 So, what about before Harvard?
58 00:04:12 What'd you fill up your days with then?
59 00:04:13 Teach For America for three years in Baltimore.
60 00:04:16 Seventh-graders.
61 00:04:17 I read that you taught high school Spanish
62 00:04:19 in Saint Paul, Minnesota, after college?
63 00:04:21 And LBJ's first job was teaching
64 00:04:22 at the Mexican school in South Texas.
65 00:04:24 Knowing how to deal with children
66 00:04:26 is a highly useful skill when working on the Hill.
67 00:04:29 But from my perspective as Senate staff,
68 00:04:32 I would wait until things turn around up here.
69 00:04:36 I think Senator Daschle would say the same thing.
70 00:04:38 Go get some real-world experience in counterterrorism,
71 00:04:42 in... foreign policy.
72 00:04:44 Try the CIA. Try FBI.
73 00:04:47 Have them teach you what they don't teach you in a classroom.
74 00:04:49 Then you can come back here, and...
75 00:04:51 help us fix all the things that Bush and Cheney are breaking.
76 00:04:54 McDonough.
77 00:04:56 Yes, Senator, uh, one second.
78 00:04:58 The boss. Here.
79 00:05:01 Keep in touch, huh?
80 00:05:03 - Thank you very much for your time. - Absolutely.
81 00:05:04 I do not have that information right now,
82 00:05:06 but I can certainly get that for you in the next 15.
83 00:05:10 Yeah.
84 00:05:17 In regards to the bomb plots in Germany,
85 00:05:18 three men were arrested in Medebach
86 00:05:20 with 1,500 pounds of hydrogen peroxide
87 00:05:22 and 26 military-grade detonators.
88 00:05:25 The CIA suspects the Islamic Jihad Union...
89 00:05:27 Excuse me.
90 00:05:28 Can I borrow you for a minute, Dan?
91 00:05:29 Senator would like to see you.
92 00:05:31 Yeah, of course.
93 00:05:36 - Morning, Dan. - Morning, Senator.
94 00:05:39 Have you seen the story today in The New York Times?
95 00:05:41 No, Senator, I have not.
96 00:05:42 Evidently, the CIA destroyed tapes
97 00:05:44 of interrogations of Al Qaeda detainees.
98 00:05:48 Did the Intel Committee know there were tapes?
99 00:05:51 No. This is the first I've heard of it.
100 00:05:54 So, I want to find out what was on the tapes
101 00:05:57 and why they were destroyed.
102 00:05:58 We want you to lead the investigation, Dan.
103 00:06:03 But if the tapes were destroyed, how do we...
104 00:06:05 They're saying they have written records.
105 00:06:07 Thousands of pages. Let's see about that.
106 00:06:11 I want you to find out exactly what they have
107 00:06:13 and read every word of it.
108 00:06:21 This report on the destruction of tapes by the CIA
109 00:06:24 - has been two years in the making. - Thank you.
110 00:06:27 The findings are very troubling,
111 00:06:30 but it will remain classified.
112 00:06:32 Based on these revelations, a larger study into
113 00:06:36 the entire CIA Detention and Interrogation Program
114 00:06:40 is clearly in order.
115 00:06:43 All in favor, say "yay."
116 00:06:46 - Mr. Whitehouse? - Yay.
117 00:06:48 - Mr. Berg? - Yay.
118 00:06:51 - Mr. Rockefeller? - Yay.
119 00:06:54 Mr. Chambliss?
120 00:06:56 - Nay. - Mr. Risch?
121 00:06:58 I think this is a waste of time.
122 00:07:00 Now, I know you voted against this, Saxby...
123 00:07:02 But you already had your tapes investigation.
124 00:07:05 Yes, but the rest of us voted to go further, 14 to one.
125 00:07:09 It's our job to provide oversight.
126 00:07:11 All during the campaign,
127 00:07:13 you got candidate Obama saying
128 00:07:15 how he wanted to be the first post-partisan president.
129 00:07:19 Saxby, you know me.
130 00:07:20 It's my intention that this report be seen
131 00:07:22 as coming from the entire Intelligence Committee,
132 00:07:24 not just the Democrats.
133 00:07:26 So, who takes the lead?
134 00:07:28 Well, I was thinking Dan Jones.
135 00:07:31 He spent four years doing counterterrorism at the FBI.
136 00:07:34 He's already got the security clearances.
137 00:07:36 The rules are the same as the tapes investigation.
138 00:07:40 No politics, no bias,
139 00:07:42 and the senator isn't interested
140 00:07:43 in opinions or theories, just facts.
141 00:07:45 Based on what you found out already,
142 00:07:47 this could go to a pretty dark place.
143 00:07:50 You need to keep your personal feelings out of it.
144 00:07:52 That's the first thing Republicans are gonna look for.
145 00:07:55 No talking to the press or your girlfriend
146 00:07:57 or any family members.
147 00:07:59 Nobody outside of the committee.
148 00:08:01 You're gonna get a team of six...
149 00:08:03 three Republicans, three Democrats...
150 00:08:04 but there can't be any Republican sentences
151 00:08:07 or Democratic paragraphs.
152 00:08:09 And how long do we have?
153 00:08:10 We're hoping you can wrap it up in a year or so.
154 00:08:14 You're gonna have to keep the senators updated on your work.
155 00:08:17 Nobody wants any surprises.
156 00:08:20 There's a covert CIA off-site in Virginia.
157 00:08:22 You start tomorrow.
158 00:08:23 Jones, right? Sean.
159 00:08:26 - Hi. Dan. - Sean Murphy from the Agency.
160 00:08:29 - Let's go inside. - Okay.
161 00:08:36 Identification, gentlemen.
162 00:08:38 The room we've designated is a SCIF.
163 00:08:41 No phone reception, no photos... you know the drill...
164 00:08:43 lead walls.
165 00:08:46 And, per the agreement,
166 00:08:47 the room is off-limits to everyone
167 00:08:49 - except committee personnel. - Absolutely.
168 00:08:51 No one inside without your permission.
169 00:09:03 - And the computers? - Right here.
170 00:09:05 Your own dedicated server, air-gapped workstations.
171 00:09:07 We'll be updating the database as we go.
172 00:09:09 The files will be loaded on here as we collect them
173 00:09:11 - from across the Agency. - Great.
174 00:09:13 We'll want all relevant documents as soon as possible.
175 00:09:15 - Well, we got to vet it first. - Vet?
176 00:09:16 There's a lot to...
177 00:09:18 Director Panetta agreed to give us
178 00:09:19 everything pertaining to the program.
179 00:09:21 Wh-Who would be, who would be vetting it?
180 00:09:23 It's a big agency.
181 00:09:25 We got to make sure you don't get anything
182 00:09:26 you're not supposed to.
183 00:09:55 Make yourself at home.
184 00:10:05 There's... no printer?
185 00:10:08 No paper.
186 00:10:10 No documents are allowed to leave the room
187 00:10:12 without CIA approval.
188 00:10:14 Paper has a way of getting people in trouble at our place.
189 00:10:20 I think at some point we're gonna need a printer.
190 00:10:23 And paper.
191 00:10:24 At our place...
192 00:10:27 paper's how we keep track of laws.
193 00:10:33 Okay.
194 00:11:11 ...calling this an obvious terrorist attack
195 00:11:15 based on very preliminary information,
196 00:11:18 the information that intelligence officials are getting...
197 00:11:21 You're not gonna like this.
198 00:11:22 ...a possible hijacked plane, and of course
199 00:11:24 the-the very horrifying video of the plane...
200 00:11:28 We confirmed some of the names.
201 00:11:30 The hijackers?
202 00:11:31 Two of the guys from the Malaysia meetings.
203 00:11:33 The San Diego guys. They took down Flight 77.
204 00:11:36 Pentagon.
205 00:11:37 ...the coordination that took place to have two planes hit the towers...
206 00:11:41 Attention, everyone, please.
207 00:11:42 We have reason to believe the Counterterrorism Center
208 00:11:45 is a potential target.
209 00:11:47 We're asking all personnel to evacuate, immediately.
210 00:11:50 Jim Miklaszewski there from the Pentagon.
211 00:11:52 Of course, the president has the authority
212 00:11:53 to scramble military, uh, forces,
213 00:11:56 and, uh, this is a case, obviously,
214 00:11:58 in which, uh, retaliation,
215 00:11:59 if indeed it proves to be a terrorist incident,
216 00:12:02 will be contemplated.
217 00:12:04 We also have to work, though,
218 00:12:06 sort of, the-the dark side, if you will.
219 00:12:08 We've got to spend time in the shadows
220 00:12:09 in-in the intelligence world.
221 00:12:12 A lot of what needs to be done here
222 00:12:14 will have to be done quietly, without any discussion...
223 00:12:17 Fucking warned them.
224 00:12:18 August 6th presidential briefing:
225 00:12:20 "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in U.S."
226 00:12:22 "Flashing red lights."
227 00:12:24 And before that, in July, what did we say?
228 00:12:27 "There will be significant terrorist attacks
229 00:12:29 against the United States in the weeks and months to come."
230 00:12:34 It's not your fault.
231 00:12:35 It is a mean, nasty, dangerous, uh, dirty business out there,
232 00:12:39 and we have to operate in that arena.
233 00:12:41 But we need to make certain that we have not
234 00:12:43 tied the hands, if you will, of our intelligence community.
235 00:12:47 Counterterrorism Director Black and I saw President Bush
236 00:12:49 at Camp David this weekend.
237 00:12:52 And the president gave me his word that there will be
238 00:12:53 no changes in CIA leadership as a result of Tuesday's attacks.
239 00:12:57 We will look forward now,
240 00:12:59 not waste time second-guessing or looking for blame.
241 00:13:03 Going forward, we will be the tip of the spear
242 00:13:05 in the battle against Al Qaeda.
243 00:13:07 As I said to the president, two weeks,
244 00:13:10 we'll have flies walking across Al Qaeda eyeballs.
245 00:13:12 I've asked Chief Counsel Rizzo here to walk us through
246 00:13:14 where we are from a legal standpoint.
247 00:13:17 The president has issued a memorandum of notification
248 00:13:21 giving CIA the power to capture and detain suspected terrorists
249 00:13:26 on the battlefield.
250 00:13:27 Detain them where?
251 00:13:29 Are we bringing them to the U.S.?
252 00:13:32 We're really not in the prison business
253 00:13:34 - over in Counterterrorism. - Look,
254 00:13:36 the budget for Counterterrorism last week was what?
255 00:13:39 $600 million?
256 00:13:41 The budget this week is whatever you need it to be.
257 00:13:45 And we are in whatever business it takes to get the job done.
258 00:13:49 Initially, CIA legal
259 00:13:51 stated that any facility used to hold detainees
260 00:13:54 had to meet the requirements of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons,
261 00:13:56 but then Deputy Director Pavitt
262 00:13:58 thought that was gonna be too limiting.
263 00:13:59 So, who came up with the black sites?
264 00:14:01 Not totally clear. My guess
265 00:14:03 is either a senior officer at Counterterr... CTC,
266 00:14:06 or Alec Station bin Laden unit
267 00:14:08 decided black sites were the best option.
268 00:14:09 Well, did the CIA tell the State Department
269 00:14:12 they were making deals to hold people on foreign soil?
270 00:14:16 Where was Secretary of State Powell in all this?
271 00:14:19 Well, I found a memo.
272 00:14:21 The CIA's general counsel...
273 00:14:24 said the decision was made
274 00:14:26 not to tell Powell about the program,
275 00:14:29 because...
276 00:14:31 "He would blow his stack
277 00:14:33 if he were to be briefed on what was going on."
278 00:14:37 Well, who decided that?
279 00:14:39 Someone inside the White House.
280 00:14:43 What about interrogations?
281 00:14:46 President Bush's memoranda
282 00:14:47 just authorized capturing and detaining.
283 00:14:50 It didn't say anything about interrogations.
284 00:14:51 And who gave them permission to play that role?
285 00:14:55 Nobody. It looks like it started with legal at CTC.
286 00:15:01 Do you want me to brief Senator McCain on this?
287 00:15:03 I know he's interested.
288 00:15:04 The Republicans just pulled out of the study, Dan.
289 00:15:13 Good morning.
290 00:15:14 Where is everybody?
291 00:15:19 Attorney General Holder opened a criminal investigation
292 00:15:21 into the CIA.
293 00:15:22 As a result, the Agency won't allow any of their people
294 00:15:25 to be interviewed for our report.
295 00:15:27 The Republicans don't see how we can move forward,
296 00:15:29 so they're out.
297 00:15:32 So, does this mean we stop?
298 00:15:33 I mean, the committee voted to investigate.
299 00:15:35 The senator says we keep going.
300 00:15:36 But we can't actually talk to anyone
301 00:15:38 - who was involved in the program. - Right.
302 00:15:39 According to CIA legal, CIA personnel is only speaking to DOJ.
303 00:15:43 And is DOJ gonna share their findings?
304 00:15:45 I mean, can we work with them?
305 00:15:46 I've reached out to the special prosecutor.
306 00:15:48 I'm waiting to hear back.
307 00:15:49 Okay, but if nobody who actually worked on the program
308 00:15:51 is going to talk to us, how do we investigate?
309 00:15:53 So, we have the files,
310 00:15:55 their e-mails and cables, their memos.
311 00:15:57 We have to use their own communications to tell the story.
312 00:16:00 Do you have any idea how hard that's gonna be?
313 00:16:02 The tapes investigation took two years, Dan,
314 00:16:05 and this is about a lot more than what was on the tapes.
315 00:16:08 We don't even know what this is.
316 00:16:11 Right, but we do know who it starts with.
317 00:16:14 We go one detainee at a time.
318 00:16:48 You speak English?
319 00:16:51 My name is Ali Soufan. I'm with the FBI.
320 00:16:54 You're under arrest.
321 00:16:55 - You understand? - No. Where are you taking me?
322 00:17:05 Your wound is infected.
323 00:17:07 But we're going to take good care of you.
324 00:17:14 I want to show you something.
325 00:17:23 He's talking to someone off-screen.
326 00:17:27 He's calling him Mukhtar.
327 00:17:30 You know who that is?
328 00:17:43 Mukhtar.
329 00:17:52 A man who lost his mind?
330 00:18:02 No, not him.
331 00:18:11 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
332 00:18:41 Abu Zubaydah confirmed that KSM is the leader
333 00:18:43 of all Al Qaeda operations outside of Afghanistan.
334 00:18:46 He trained the hijackers.
335 00:18:48 We're calling him the mastermind.
336 00:18:49 Outstanding.
337 00:18:51 Hats off to the bin Laden group.
338 00:18:54 Whichever one of your people did this,
339 00:18:55 I want to call them and congratulate them in person.
340 00:18:57 Who was it?
341 00:18:59 Wasn't our guy.
342 00:19:01 What? Who got it?
343 00:19:03 FBI is working Zubaydah.
344 00:19:06 An FBI guy got this?
345 00:19:08 Yes, Ali Soufan.
346 00:19:09 They used him in the Cole investigation.
347 00:19:11 He's part of their counterterrorism group. He speaks Arabic.
348 00:19:13 I don't care who speaks Arabic.
349 00:19:16 This is not just a criminal investigation.
350 00:19:19 We are gathering intelligence here.
351 00:19:21 That is what we do.
352 00:19:22 The FBI is looking at the past.
353 00:19:24 We need to stop attacks in the future.
354 00:19:27 I want CIA in the room with this guy, okay?
355 00:19:29 I want CIA in the room with Zubaydah.
356 00:19:32 So, who do we have who can work on him?
357 00:19:33 CIA runs sources, people who cooperate.
358 00:19:36 That's not these guys.
359 00:19:37 Every second we are not draining the detainee's brain,
360 00:19:39 we are rolling the dice.
361 00:19:40 We need our people in the room.
362 00:19:42 We need to be the ones asking the questions now.
363 00:19:46 I heard from someone over in Technical Services,
364 00:19:48 a woman named Miriam,
365 00:19:50 about a couple of Air Force psychologists
366 00:19:53 who came in and pitched a whole new approach to interrogations.
367 00:19:56 Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen.
368 00:19:59 Miriam says Mitchell has the special sauce.
369 00:20:03 Zubaydah didn't tell us everything,
370 00:20:06 because we stopped short of where we needed to go.
371 00:20:10 SERE stands for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape.
372 00:20:16 It's a program to help prepare U.S. Special Forces
373 00:20:20 for whatever they might encounter if captured.
374 00:20:22 Now, I have over 14,000 hours
375 00:20:26 observing SERE interrogation techniques.
376 00:20:29 Bruce here has more than that...
377 00:20:30 Observing, as opposed to...?
378 00:20:33 I took a course in conducting interrogations as well.
379 00:20:36 I worked with volunteers in actual simulations.
380 00:20:39 We feel we can reverse engineer
381 00:20:42 these SERE techniques to induce learned helplessness.
382 00:20:46 Can you explain what that means,
383 00:20:48 "reverse engineer"?
384 00:20:49 Instead of using these techniques to protect our people,
385 00:20:54 we use them to achieve compliance in the detainees.
386 00:20:58 Our plan involves, uh, using individual assessments
387 00:21:01 of detainees to create a program designed to induce
388 00:21:06 debility, dependency and dread.
389 00:21:10 - We call these the three "D"s. - Three "D"s.
390 00:21:13 And there's science to back this up?
391 00:21:15 Oh, yes. Yes, sir.
392 00:21:16 Excuse me, Dr. Mitchell.
393 00:21:18 Can you elaborate on, uh, the techniques you'll be employing?
394 00:21:21 Absolutely.
395 00:21:25 The, uh, the attention grasp.
396 00:21:30 Walling.
397 00:21:32 Facial hold.
398 00:21:34 The facial slap or insult slap.
399 00:21:38 Cramped confinement.
400 00:21:41 Wall standing.
401 00:21:44 Stress positions.
402 00:21:47 Sleep deprivation.
403 00:21:49 Waterboarding.
404 00:21:51 Use of insects.
405 00:21:54 And mock burials.
406 00:21:59 Well, from my perspective,
407 00:22:01 this seems like it could be a potential game changer,
408 00:22:03 but, of course...
409 00:22:05 it's up to Director Rodriguez.
410 00:22:07 I think if we're serious about stopping the next threat,
411 00:22:10 we need to put on our big boy pants
412 00:22:12 and provide the authorities these guys need.
413 00:22:14 These approaches might...
414 00:22:16 raise some eyebrows at Defense.
415 00:22:18 Well, we're not at Defense. We're at the CIA.
416 00:22:21 Besides, you just said,
417 00:22:22 we use this SERE stuff on our guys all the time.
418 00:22:25 I don't see a problem.
419 00:22:27 Shortly after the CIA's decision
420 00:22:28 to engage Dr. Mitchell, Abu Zubaydah was moved
421 00:22:31 to a cell that was lit 24 hours a day.
422 00:22:33 Loud noise was fed into his cell to disrupt his sleep.
423 00:22:37 What about the guy who got him talking?
424 00:22:38 Ali Soufan?
425 00:22:40 Wait, he's FBI, not CIA.
426 00:22:42 So, we can ask him questions, right?
427 00:22:44 No rule against that.
428 00:22:47 We can try.
429 00:22:59 There's only one interrogation technique
430 00:23:02 that works: rapport building.
431 00:23:04 You get close to these guys, and they open up.
432 00:23:07 But the CIA didn't believe that.
433 00:23:09 Just look at Abu Zubaydah.
434 00:23:11 Well, you got him to talk. How'd you do that?
435 00:23:13 I walked in one day and played him a tape of himself.
436 00:23:16 Most of it was of a phone conversation.
437 00:23:19 We had tapped his phones.
438 00:23:20 But he forgot to hang up at the end of the call,
439 00:23:23 so we had all this background noise of his house.
440 00:23:26 Then my partner walked in
441 00:23:27 with a big box full of cassette tapes.
442 00:23:30 We told him we had bugged his safe house;
443 00:23:32 we had been listening for months;
444 00:23:34 we knew everything, so lying was pointless.
445 00:23:37 He looked at the box full of tapes and...
446 00:23:38 And all-all the tapes were blank.
447 00:23:40 Of course they were.
448 00:23:41 But he didn't know that.
449 00:23:43 So, he talked.
450 00:23:46 What happened when the contractors showed up?
451 00:23:49 Who the fuck is this?
452 00:23:51 Dr. Mitchell is an Air Force psychologist,
453 00:23:53 and he's developed a new method of interrogation.
454 00:23:55 Why-why do we need a new method?
455 00:23:57 He's not telling you everything.
456 00:23:59 We think he knows more.
457 00:24:01 We put him at number three
458 00:24:02 or number four in Al Qaeda leadership.
459 00:24:04 He probably knows the next move.
460 00:24:05 Do you speak Arabic, Jim? Does Gary here?
461 00:24:08 Don't need to.
462 00:24:11 Can I ask you something?
463 00:24:12 Have you ever interrogated any sort of extremist before?
464 00:24:17 - Know much about Al Qaeda? - No.
465 00:24:19 Have you ever interrogated any sort of terrorist before?
466 00:24:23 - No. - Any sort of criminal?
467 00:24:26 No.
468 00:24:27 Have you ever interrogated anyone before?
469 00:24:30 It's not important.
470 00:24:32 He's a human; I'm a psychologist.
471 00:24:36 He knows a secret,
472 00:24:37 and I'm gonna get him to tell that secret to Gary.
473 00:24:43 What-what are you going to do to him that isn't...
474 00:24:44 What am I gonna do?
475 00:24:47 What is Jim gonna do?
476 00:24:48 Jim's gonna do what works.
477 00:24:54 Let's go, shitbird!
478 00:25:00 Move it, asshole!
479 00:25:03 Help! Please!
480 00:25:21 You can't just shave a Muslim man.
481 00:25:23 Do you know what that means?
482 00:25:24 He's going to shut down.
483 00:25:26 Got to humiliate him, right off the bat.
484 00:25:29 Same reason we took away his clothes.
485 00:25:31 Why the loud music?
486 00:25:32 Sleep deprivation.
487 00:25:34 We stop the music when he starts talking.
488 00:25:37 Then he can sleep.
489 00:25:39 Tired people tell the truth?
490 00:25:40 Learned helplessness.
491 00:25:43 You're familiar with Dr. Martin Seligman?
492 00:25:46 Seligman did an experiment with dogs.
493 00:25:48 He put them in a cage
494 00:25:50 with a barrier running down the middle.
495 00:25:53 And one side of the cage was electrified and the other wasn't.
496 00:25:56 At first, when he shocked the dogs,
497 00:25:58 they'd jump over the barrier to get away.
498 00:26:00 And then he electrified both sides.
499 00:26:04 There was no escape.
500 00:26:07 No belief they could change anything.
501 00:26:10 He'd open the door to the cage,
502 00:26:12 they wouldn't even leave.
503 00:26:14 It's learned helplessness.
504 00:26:15 That's what we're gonna instill in this man.
505 00:26:17 You'll see.
506 00:26:25 A coffin? You're gonna kill him?
507 00:26:27 Let's call it a confinement box.
508 00:26:30 I got this one, and I got a smaller one.
509 00:26:33 And you're gonna put him in there?
510 00:26:35 With these, which, based on my evaluation, he hates.
511 00:26:41 Are you out of your mind?
512 00:26:43 We don't do this.
513 00:26:45 You know this is against the law.
514 00:26:46 The most senior people have signed off on it.
515 00:26:50 We're putting him on trial.
516 00:26:51 How are we gonna build a case against him?
517 00:26:54 Who says he's getting a trial?
518 00:26:58 I wanted to arrest him right there on the spot.
519 00:27:01 - I told the Bureau that. - What'd they say?
520 00:27:04 They briefed Director Mueller,
521 00:27:06 and told me to get the hell out of there, so I did.
522 00:27:09 - When was that? - Late May, mid-May or...
523 00:27:12 'Cause I'm finding records that say that
524 00:27:14 Mitchell left a little while later, early June,
525 00:27:16 for R&R and some meetings at headquarters.
526 00:27:20 But we had one high-value detainee in custody,
527 00:27:23 Abu Zubaydah.
528 00:27:24 And after Mitchell left, the CIA put him in isolation,
529 00:27:27 and didn't ask him a single question for 47 days.
530 00:27:31 Are you fucking kidding me?
531 00:27:34 The whole country was on red alert that summer.
532 00:27:35 If they were so concerned about the next attack,
533 00:27:38 why'd they stop asking questions?
534 00:27:39 Right, it doesn't make any sense.
535 00:27:41 Once the psychologist showed up,
536 00:27:42 almost nothing did anymore.
537 00:27:51 The CIA said Zubaydah was involved
538 00:27:53 in every major terrorist operation
539 00:27:55 carried out by Al Qaeda.
540 00:27:57 They told the president
541 00:27:58 he was number three or four in the organization.
542 00:28:00 Yes, that was my understanding as well.
543 00:28:02 And the claim that Zubaydah was a major player
544 00:28:05 was the main justification they gave to the Justice Department
545 00:28:07 for needing to go harder.
546 00:28:08 They were certain he knew about the next attack.
547 00:28:11 But last night I found this.
548 00:28:14 Turns out Zubaydah wasn't three or four in the organization.
549 00:28:16 He wasn't part of Al Qaeda leadership at all.
550 00:28:19 They only had one source calling him that,
551 00:28:21 and that source later admitted he was lying.
552 00:28:23 So, they exaggerated who he was
553 00:28:26 to the president and the Department of Justice
554 00:28:28 in order to get legal approvals for these new techniques?
555 00:28:32 Is that what you're saying?
556 00:28:33 I think that's a possibility.
557 00:28:36 The program really starts with him.
558 00:28:43 Have you guys used this thing before?
559 00:28:45 The waterboard?
560 00:28:47 No, it's a Navy thing.
561 00:28:49 But we watched a video.
562 00:28:51 We tested it on each other,
563 00:28:52 just to get a feel for the experience.
564 00:28:55 Is it safe?
565 00:28:58 Yes.
566 00:29:12 Who are the operatives inside the U.S.?
567 00:29:14 I don't know!
568 00:29:20 When is the next attack?
569 00:29:21 I don't know.
570 00:29:31 One, two, three, four, five,
571 00:29:35 six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11,
572 00:29:40 12, 13, 14,
573 00:29:43 15, 16, 17, 18,
574 00:29:46 19, 20, 21, 22,
575 00:29:50 23, 24, 25, 26.
576 00:30:02 When is the next attack?
577 00:30:04 Who are the operatives inside the U.S.?
578 00:30:12 Anything in that bag contain
579 00:30:13 the real names of CIA officers, assets or partners,
580 00:30:16 or any information that would violate the agreement between
581 00:30:18 the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Senate?
582 00:30:21 - All good. - All right, good night.
583 00:30:23 - Have a good night, Jay. - Get home safe.
584 00:30:25 Good night.
585 00:30:43 Dan Jones?
586 00:30:48 Do I know you?
587 00:30:49 No, but I think I can help you.
588 00:30:52 - Help-help me with what? - The EIT program.
589 00:30:55 That's what you're looking into, isn't it?
590 00:30:59 I need to know I won't be named, anywhere.
591 00:31:03 I'm still with the Agency.
592 00:31:05 My even being here with you, talking, is...
593 00:31:12 What was your involvement?
594 00:31:14 Office of Medical Services, black sites.
595 00:31:18 - So, you're a doctor? - Physician's assistant.
596 00:31:21 The American Medical Association
597 00:31:22 won't allow doctors to be involved.
598 00:31:24 They take an oath: do no harm.
599 00:31:26 We're the next best thing.
600 00:31:28 I was there when the contractors arrived.
601 00:31:33 They made tapes of the Abu Zubaydah interrogations,
602 00:31:35 but there's a 21-hour period
603 00:31:37 where the transcripts are missing... nothing.
604 00:31:39 They were using the waterboard.
605 00:31:41 Zubaydah lost consciousness.
606 00:31:43 He was choking to death, drowning.
607 00:31:45 Not just thinking he was drowning,
608 00:31:47 he was actually fucking drowning.
609 00:31:50 I was told that the waterboard
610 00:31:52 was only gonna be used as a last resort.
611 00:31:54 The contractors did an assessment of the prisoner,
612 00:31:57 - and they made a call... - What kind of assessment?
613 00:31:59 They bounced him off the walls a few times
614 00:32:01 and then strapped him down and poured water down his throat.
615 00:32:04 We understand this is a different approach,
616 00:32:05 - but it's based on science. - Science?
617 00:32:08 Come on. What science?
618 00:32:10 - Have you seen their science? - They believe the waterboard
619 00:32:12 is working here to create compliance.
620 00:32:13 Well, of course they do.
621 00:32:15 They're the ones who get to decide when it's used.
622 00:32:17 And they're also the ones who get to decide if it's working.
623 00:32:19 How is that even ethical?
624 00:32:21 The people we're dealing with weaponized daily life.
625 00:32:23 Would you like to talk about the ethics of that?
626 00:32:27 We're here to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again.
627 00:32:31 They're training their people to resist traditional interrogations
628 00:32:33 in the back of a cave somewhere.
629 00:32:35 So we need to change our approach
630 00:32:37 before another bomb goes off or another building falls down.
631 00:32:41 Okay, okay.
632 00:32:43 What is gonna happen when one of our soldiers gets captured
633 00:32:47 and takes out a card with the Geneva Convention on it
634 00:32:49 and wants to be treated like a human being?
635 00:32:52 You think his captors aren't gonna remember
636 00:32:55 the way these people were treated here?
637 00:32:57 - And for what? - Do you have a kid at home?
638 00:33:03 We're not gonna get beat again.
639 00:33:06 Besides the chief of station,
640 00:33:07 did you report your concerns up the chain of command?
641 00:33:09 We got a cable from Director Rodriguez
642 00:33:12 telling us to stop putting our objections in writing.
643 00:33:15 No paper trail.
644 00:33:18 I told them if they were gonna keep using the new techniques,
645 00:33:20 I wanted out.
646 00:33:23 I wasn't the only one. Guys were choking up.
647 00:33:27 It's all in the e-mails.
648 00:33:35 As early as November 2001,
649 00:33:37 the CIA's legal team circulated a memorandum
650 00:33:40 describing a novel legal defense
651 00:33:42 for their officers who might engage in torture.
652 00:33:44 Come on. They actually called it torture?
653 00:33:47 The CIA?
654 00:33:48 They just forgot we have laws against that?
655 00:33:50 Yes, sir. Mitchell and Jessen renamed it
656 00:33:52 "enhanced interrogation" to help sell it,
657 00:33:54 but the Agency was talking about doing it
658 00:33:56 before they even had a single detainee.
659 00:33:59 My question, Senator, is:
660 00:34:01 How did the CIA know they needed to torture prisoners
661 00:34:03 before they even had one?
662 00:34:06 That didn't come from Cheney and Addington?
663 00:34:08 Seems like it happened the other way around.
664 00:34:09 The CIA took it to the Bush White House
665 00:34:12 and John Yoo at the Office of Legal Counsel.
666 00:34:15 So, here's where we're at.
667 00:34:16 The crime of torture, as described in Section 2340,
668 00:34:20 requires that the defendant... in this case, an interrogator...
669 00:34:23 intends to cause severe pain or suffering.
670 00:34:27 But in this case, that's not the interrogator's intent.
671 00:34:30 Right. The intent is to gain intel, save American lives.
672 00:34:33 But, John, what if the techniques the interrogator employs
673 00:34:36 do nonetheless cause pain and suffering?
674 00:34:39 How do we deal with that?
675 00:34:40 Well, the key phrase is "severe pain or suffering."
676 00:34:44 But 2340 never actually defines the term "severe."
677 00:34:46 We found this definition in a Medicare statute.
678 00:34:50 Severe pain or suffering:
679 00:34:52 "acute symptoms that place the individual in serious jeopardy
680 00:34:55 and are hard to endure."
681 00:34:57 Meaning?
682 00:34:57 To constitute torture,
683 00:35:00 the damage done must rise to the level of organ failure,
684 00:35:05 impairment of bodily function, or death.
685 00:35:08 So, basically, if someone dies, we're doing it wrong?
686 00:35:11 If the president deemed it necessary
687 00:35:13 to... crush the testicles of a child
688 00:35:16 to stop a plane from crashing into a building,
689 00:35:18 to save American lives,
690 00:35:20 there is no law or treaty that could stop him.
691 00:35:23 I can make the same argument for
692 00:35:25 gouging out a prisoner's eyes or dousing him with acid.
693 00:35:31 In our opinion,
694 00:35:32 if it provides unique intelligence that saves lives,
695 00:35:36 and doesn't cause any lasting harm,
696 00:35:39 then it's legal for the president to order it.
697 00:35:41 What do we mean when we say "unique"?
698 00:35:43 Intelligence that couldn't have been obtained any other way.
699 00:35:50 And you've discussed all of this with the White House, I assume?
700 00:35:53 And?
701 00:35:55 Did they tell Bush what they were gonna do to Zubaydah?
702 00:35:57 - No. - And National Security Advisor Rice...
703 00:35:59 where was she in all this?
704 00:36:00 National Security Advisor Rice was told about the program,
705 00:36:03 but she was also told the president would not be briefed.
706 00:36:06 Who tells the president's national security advisor
707 00:36:09 not to brief the president?
708 00:36:13 Cheney and Addington.
709 00:36:15 According to CIA records, Bush wasn't told about the program
710 00:36:18 until April of 2006, four years later.
711 00:36:27 And the records we found state
712 00:36:29 that when the president was finally told about the program,
713 00:36:32 he expressed discomfort with the image of a detainee
714 00:36:36 chained to the ceiling, wearing a diaper,
715 00:36:37 and forced to go to the bathroom on himself.
716 00:36:41 How long till you can get this thing done, Dan?
717 00:36:45 We've got to get this out.
718 00:36:51 What about this guy, Gul Rahman?
719 00:36:55 Captured in Peshawar, November 2002.
720 00:36:57 He's not at Gitmo. He's-he's not anywhere.
721 00:37:06 Gul Rahman.
722 00:37:08 Gul...
723 00:37:10 No. They didn't tell the committee about him.
724 00:37:13 He's detainee number 24.
725 00:37:21 HQ says he knows operational detail about Al Qaeda.
726 00:37:25 The guy's an asshole.
727 00:37:27 Threw his food at us, he threatened to kill the guards.
728 00:37:30 I've asked headquarters to approve the application
729 00:37:34 of the enhanced measures for this detainee,
730 00:37:37 and the request has been approved.
731 00:37:39 Great. We haven't had any luck loosening him up.
732 00:37:42 Come on!
733 00:37:43 Ran him up and down the hall,
734 00:37:44 beat the crap out of him... nothing.
735 00:37:48 Even been trying this thing they call short shackling.
736 00:37:52 Chain a dude's hands to a bolt on the floor.
737 00:37:55 Then you chain his feet to the same bolt.
738 00:37:59 Farmers call it hog-tying, I think.
739 00:38:02 He finally admitted to something.
740 00:38:04 What was that?
741 00:38:05 That he was who we said he was: Gul Rahman.
742 00:38:12 What you want to do first is take away his sense of control.
743 00:38:17 If you like, I could spend some time showing you
744 00:38:19 how to achieve this with the enhanced techniques.
745 00:38:24 Great.
746 00:38:26 We got another 30 guys here to deal with.
747 00:38:31 I heard you told the doctor you were cold.
748 00:38:53 Senator, do you have a few minutes this morning?
749 00:38:55 Absolutely. Come on in, Dan.
750 00:38:58 The senator is needed on the floor for a vote.
751 00:39:01 Give her five minutes.
752 00:39:04 Did you sleep last night, Dan?
753 00:39:10 Senator, a prisoner died.
754 00:39:18 Gul Rahman.
755 00:39:21 They thought he was maybe working for an Afghan warlord
756 00:39:23 or that he knew something about an attack.
757 00:39:25 - Did he? - No, he died before they found out
758 00:39:26 anything besides his name.
759 00:39:29 Dumped cold water on him one night
760 00:39:30 and found him dead in his cell in the morning.
761 00:39:32 The autopsy said hypothermia.
762 00:39:34 - Where did you get this from? - Inspector general's report.
763 00:39:37 CIA did their own investigation into the death of Gul Rahman.
764 00:39:44 The officer in charge was recommended
765 00:39:45 for a performance bonus.
766 00:39:47 They promoted him.
767 00:39:48 He's still out there in the field.
768 00:39:55 Well, are you accusing the CIA of murder, Dan?
769 00:40:00 Because that sounds like where this is going.
770 00:40:03 We have proof the deputy director
771 00:40:05 coached the officer in charge how to cover up what happened,
772 00:40:08 told him to be careful what he put in writing.
773 00:40:12 So, why would they need to cover it up
774 00:40:13 if they were following standard operating procedure?
775 00:40:17 Why didn't they tell the committee?
776 00:40:19 Why didn't they tell you?
777 00:40:25 I'm gonna need to review all this personally.
778 00:40:29 It's very disconcerting.
779 00:40:39 "Disconcerting"? "Very disconcerting"?
780 00:40:41 Dan, you need to be careful here.
781 00:40:43 You're getting emotionally involved.
782 00:40:46 They fucking killed a guy, and nobody was held accountable?
783 00:40:50 W-We don't know he was a terrorist.
784 00:40:52 - We barely even know his name. - I understand.
785 00:40:55 And what you need to understand is that
786 00:40:56 her name is going on this report, not yours.
787 00:41:00 Senate staff doesn't have to run for reelection,
788 00:41:02 but she does.
789 00:41:04 Their legal argument said EITs wouldn't cause lasting harm.
790 00:41:07 So how long is Gul Rahman gonna be dead for?
791 00:41:19 Are you guys seeing this Panetta review?
792 00:41:21 It just showed up.
793 00:41:25 I don't understand.
794 00:41:26 Looks like the CIA did their own investigation.
795 00:41:29 It confirms everything we've been finding.
796 00:41:37 So, what are you gonna do with it?
797 00:41:41 Hopefully, nothing.
798 00:41:44 Special Prosecutor Durham, please?
799 00:41:47 I've already left several messages.
800 00:41:48 It's Dan Jones again from the Intelligence Committee.
801 00:41:50 How are you?
802 00:41:52 Good. I just wanted to check in again to see
803 00:41:54 if the special prosecutor is available
804 00:41:55 to meet on the CIA probe.
805 00:41:59 It can be off the record. I just want to compare notes.
806 00:42:04 Yeah, same number. Thank you.
807 00:42:10 You know, we got to think back
808 00:42:11 to the period after 9/11.
809 00:42:13 We didn't even know who hit us.
810 00:42:14 We didn't know that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was
811 00:42:16 the mastermind of 9/11
812 00:42:17 or the operational commander of Al Qaeda.
813 00:42:19 And then we started rounding up these terrorists.
814 00:42:20 We caught Abu Zubaydah.
815 00:42:21 We caught, uh, Ramzi bin al-Shibh and KSM.
816 00:42:24 And these guys provided us information under questioning
817 00:42:26 by the CIA that stopped a number of terrorist attacks.
818 00:42:30 They were pl-planning to blow up
819 00:42:31 the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan.
820 00:42:34 - Shit. - They were planning to blow up
821 00:42:35 our Marine camp in Djibouti...
822 00:42:43 - Good morning. - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was
823 00:42:44 indicted in New York for trying to blow up airplanes in 1995.
824 00:42:49 The CIA already knew about him.
825 00:42:50 They knew he was close to bin Laden.
826 00:42:52 They knew about him before Zubaydah ever identified him.
827 00:42:54 How long have you been here?
828 00:42:55 Also, according to this cable... a few hours...
829 00:42:57 a CIA officer in Islamabad
830 00:42:59 began working someone they call Asset X.
831 00:43:02 X claimed to have direct access to KSM,
832 00:43:05 but was eventually turned away when he asked for money.
833 00:43:08 - How much money? - Few thousand bucks.
834 00:43:11 Two years later, after they've been putting him off,
835 00:43:13 putting him off, putting him off, they finally pay him,
836 00:43:15 and almost immediately he sends a text
837 00:43:17 to his CIA handler saying: "I'm with KSM."
838 00:43:20 It had nothing to do with the waterboard.
839 00:43:22 - Good morning. - Good morning.
840 00:43:41 One, two, three,
841 00:43:44 four, five, six...
842 00:43:46 Who are you working with in the U.S.?
843 00:43:48 ...seven, eight, nine, 10, 11...
844 00:43:52 We have your kids!
845 00:43:53 ...12, 13, 14, 15,
846 00:43:56 16, 17...
847 00:43:58 It will stop if you talk!
848 00:44:04 Where is the next attack?
849 00:44:06 Canary Wharf! Canary Wharf!
850 00:44:11 Okay, here's the problem.
851 00:44:12 We already know about
852 00:44:14 the Heathrow and Canary Wharf plots.
853 00:44:17 He knows that. It's in his goddamn notebook.
854 00:44:19 We asked about plots in the U.S., not London.
855 00:44:21 - He's fucking with you again. - To be honest,
856 00:44:24 I've never met a resistor like this guy.
857 00:44:27 He's a super resistor.
858 00:44:28 He lied to you to make you stop.
859 00:44:30 He just tells us shit he knows we already have.
860 00:44:32 That's all he does.
861 00:44:33 Then that's what we're learning.
862 00:44:37 That's what the waterboard is giving us.
863 00:44:42 We now know he's lying.
864 00:44:44 I thought it was meant to give us the truth.
865 00:44:47 And... the truth is he's lying.
866 00:44:58 Headquarters says we go again.
867 00:45:03 The chief of interrogations
868 00:45:04 ordered the rectal rehydration Of KSM,
869 00:45:06 not for health reasons,
870 00:45:08 but as a way of showing total control over the detainee.
871 00:45:11 Even though rectal rehydration was never
872 00:45:13 an approved technique.
873 00:45:15 Total control isn't chaining the guy to the wall,
874 00:45:17 keeping him awake for days, and threatening his family?
875 00:45:19 You need to shove a tube up his ass?
876 00:45:22 This right here is the rest of your life
877 00:45:24 unless you start telling the truth.
878 00:45:26 Then they went back to waterboarding him.
879 00:45:28 "When a medical officer pressed on KSM's..."
880 00:45:29 - Wait. Where are you? - Next page.
881 00:45:31 "When a medical officer pressed on KSM's abdomen,
882 00:45:33 he expressed water from his mouth and nose."
883 00:45:35 So, he was swallowing all the water.
884 00:45:37 "On March 17th,
885 00:45:38 the waterboard technique began to evolve."
886 00:45:43 Interrogators used their hands to maintain
887 00:45:44 a pool of water over KSM's nose and mouth.
888 00:45:58 Who are the operatives inside the U.S.?
889 00:46:02 Issa... Issa...
890 00:46:04 Issa al-Britani.
891 00:46:08 Where is the next attack?
892 00:46:10 M-Montana.
893 00:46:14 We got something.
894 00:46:17 KSM told interrogators
895 00:46:18 he sent Abu Issa al-Britani to the U.S.
896 00:46:21 to recruit African American Muslims in Montana
897 00:46:24 to blow up gas stations and start forest fires.
898 00:46:26 Montana?
899 00:46:27 Muslims in Montana?
900 00:46:29 The FBI had serious doubts as well.
901 00:46:33 Later, KSM admitted he just told them
902 00:46:34 what they wanted to hear to make it stop.
903 00:46:36 So, did they get anything actionable from him at all?
904 00:46:40 Anything that saved lives?
905 00:46:42 They waterboarded him 183 times, and then concluded
906 00:46:45 KSM may never be forthcoming or honest.
907 00:46:47 Everything they got from him
908 00:46:49 was either a lie or something they already had.
909 00:46:52 Well, okay, so my first question is:
910 00:46:55 If it works, why do you need to do it 183 times?
911 00:47:01 Maybe when the report comes out,
912 00:47:02 people will finally see that.
913 00:47:04 Well, let's worry about getting it right, getting it done.
914 00:47:07 We can worry about changing the world later.
915 00:47:25 Sorry I'm late.
916 00:47:26 It's okay.
917 00:47:28 - Barely slept. - Want some coffee?
918 00:47:34 Hey, can I ask you something?
919 00:47:36 You ever, uh, have dreams,
920 00:47:39 you know, about the stuff that's in the report?
921 00:47:43 Yeah. I have one where I'm drowning.
922 00:47:46 I can't move my arms or legs. I can't breathe.
923 00:47:48 - That wakes me up. - Last night I dreamt
924 00:47:50 I was trapped in one of those confinement boxes.
925 00:47:53 They just left me there.
926 00:47:55 Daniel Jones, right?
927 00:47:58 - Do I know you? - I just wanted to tell you to your face
928 00:48:00 that I think you and that report are garbage.
929 00:48:03 - Excuse me... - You weren't there,
930 00:48:05 so you don't know what worked and what didn't
931 00:48:06 or what we were up against.
932 00:48:08 You may not realize, but we were trying
933 00:48:09 to protect this country from people who want to destroy
934 00:48:11 everything we believe in.
935 00:48:13 You may not realize it,
936 00:48:15 but we're trying to do the exact same thing.
937 00:48:17 Your bullshit report will never see the light of day.
938 00:48:25 Special Prosecutor Durham, please.
939 00:48:27 It's Dan Jones, calling again
940 00:48:29 about the Justice Department investigation of the CIA.
941 00:48:32 We really need to meet.
942 00:48:35 You have?
943 00:48:39 Okay, what are their findings?
944 00:48:51 Fuck!
945 00:48:53 Nothing?
946 00:48:55 No indictments at all?
947 00:48:56 No charges against Jose Rodriguez or Gina Haspel
948 00:48:58 for destroying the tapes.
949 00:49:00 Nothing against the CIA for torturing people.
950 00:49:02 Nothing against Jim Pavitt and the others
951 00:49:04 for providing misinformation, nothing at all.
952 00:49:06 DOJ says they don't have enough admissible evidence
953 00:49:09 to convict anyone.
954 00:49:10 You go after the contractors, and they're indemnified.
955 00:49:13 You go after the head of Counterterrorism,
956 00:49:14 and he'd just say he was following orders
957 00:49:15 from the CIA director.
958 00:49:17 You go after the director, and he...
959 00:49:18 well, he would just cite the president.
960 00:49:19 Then the White House would claim national security.
961 00:49:22 DOJ at least share what they found?
962 00:49:24 No.
963 00:49:28 They won't turn anything over.
964 00:49:32 We're the only ones still looking at this.
965 00:49:52 Dan?
966 00:49:55 Dan.
967 00:49:57 You know a CIA officer
968 00:49:58 testified before Congress in 1978 regarding the use of
969 00:50:00 coercive physical interrogation techniques in Latin America?
970 00:50:04 And the officer said the techniques result
971 00:50:05 in false answers and have proven to be ineffective.
972 00:50:08 And before Latin America, they did it in Vietnam.
973 00:50:10 Dan, I need to tell you something.
974 00:50:10 They knew it didn't work and they did it again.
975 00:50:12 Don't even listen to their own fucking people.
976 00:50:13 I'm leaving the study.
977 00:50:15 I... I got a job offer, and I can't turn it down.
978 00:50:20 I'm sorry, but don't you see what this is doing to you?
979 00:50:24 To all of us?
980 00:50:25 I mean, my kids are at home growing up,
981 00:50:27 and I'm down here reading about how they put a power drill
982 00:50:30 against one guy's head and-and how they pulled
983 00:50:32 another guy's arms out of his sockets.
984 00:50:33 And I just... this is how I'm spending my Sundays.
985 00:50:36 And my Saturdays.
986 00:50:36 This is how I spend every day.
987 00:50:39 I just... I-I-I-I can't.
988 00:50:45 I'm gonna leave after Thanksgiving.
989 00:50:53 Okay. I understand. Okay.
990 00:50:57 Thanksgiving.
991 00:50:58 That gives us... that gives us a couple months.
992 00:51:01 Dan, it's November.
993 00:51:05 Thanksgiving is next week.
994 00:51:09 How many pages have we written so far? Thousands?
995 00:51:13 We don't even know if this is ever gonna come out.
996 00:51:17 The tapes investigation never did.
997 00:51:18 It's still classified.
998 00:51:20 You just said it yourself:
999 00:51:21 The CIA knew this shit didn't work in 1978,
1000 00:51:24 and it didn't stop them from doing it again.
1001 00:51:29 Look, we've been down here for two years, Dan,
1002 00:51:30 in this basement.
1003 00:51:33 Nobody's waiting for us to come out.
1004 00:52:14 shocking photos that apparently show U.S. troops
1005 00:52:16 abusing detainees in a prison outside Baghdad.
1006 00:52:20 We have a problem.
1007 00:52:21 Both myself and the president have gone on record
1008 00:52:23 saying we do not torture people.
1009 00:52:27 He just made a statement for the U.N.'s goddamn
1010 00:52:29 Day in Support of Victims of Torture.
1011 00:52:32 What-what did he say?
1012 00:52:37 "The United States does not torture.
1013 00:52:40 It's against our laws and it's against our values.
1014 00:52:43 I have not authorized it, and I will not authorize it."
1015 00:52:50 I'm not sure where that leaves either of us.
1016 00:52:53 So, here's the deal.
1017 00:52:55 Some new lawyer over at OLC, Jack Goldsmith,
1018 00:52:59 is saying there are issues with the John Yoo memo.
1019 00:53:02 Legal issues?
1020 00:53:03 Yeah, and there's the inspector general's report:
1021 00:53:05 allegations of war crimes and torture.
1022 00:53:08 Throws the whole program under the goddamn bus.
1023 00:53:11 What's it say?
1024 00:53:13 "The inspector general finds that EITs are inconsistent
1025 00:53:17 with the public policy positions
1026 00:53:18 the United States has taken regarding human rights,"
1027 00:53:22 blah, blah, blah.
1028 00:53:24 "The program, as implemented,
1029 00:53:26 diverges sharply from how the CIA has described," blah, blah.
1030 00:53:31 "There is also little evidence that the waterboard
1031 00:53:34 is effective in gaining information."
1032 00:53:36 Look, guys, Director Tenet wants to pause the program.
1033 00:53:41 You know, I retired from the Air Force
1034 00:53:44 just a couple of months before 9/11.
1035 00:53:47 22 years.
1036 00:53:51 And then I wake up that morning,
1037 00:53:53 and I turn on the news and...
1038 00:53:58 see what's happening.
1039 00:54:02 A lot of people just went back to their coffee and cornflakes.
1040 00:54:06 But Jim wanted to do something
1041 00:54:11 to keep people safe.
1042 00:54:13 We are going right back to the National Security Council today
1043 00:54:16 and asking to have the program recertified,
1044 00:54:18 as many techniques as possible.
1045 00:54:21 We have a plan.
1046 00:54:23 Thank you. Thank you.
1047 00:54:45 Jones.
1048 00:54:47 Yes, Senator.
1049 00:54:57 On the Sunday talk shows,
1050 00:54:58 former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
1051 00:55:01 and former Vice President Dick Cheney argued
1052 00:55:03 enhanced interrogation techniques played a major role
1053 00:55:06 in leading up to the raid on bin Laden's compound.
1054 00:55:09 No, that's not right. That's not what happened.
1055 00:55:11 - It was not torture. - I'll look into it.
1056 00:55:12 And, uh, I would strongly recommend that we continue it.
1057 00:55:15 At the heart of the controversy is a process called waterboarding.
1058 00:55:22 Okay, here's what the CIA is claiming:
1059 00:55:24 They got bin Laden after using EITs against detainees.
1060 00:55:31 They say it all started in 2002 with Abu Zubaydah
1061 00:55:36 and a detainee they called "Riyadh the Facilitator,"
1062 00:55:40 who tipped them off to Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti,
1063 00:55:42 who had ties to bin Laden.
1064 00:55:43 That's not what happened?
1065 00:55:44 The truth is the CIA was on al-Kuwaiti's phones,
1066 00:55:47 e-mails, identity, long before they captured any detainees.
1067 00:55:52 Before they even had an EIT program.
1068 00:55:55 Zubaydah told us al-Kuwaiti had nothing to do with bin Laden.
1069 00:55:58 Same with KSM and-and the others.
1070 00:56:02 But now we have former CIA Director Michael Hayden
1071 00:56:04 on the radio saying this all came from EITs.
1072 00:56:07 And former Attorney General Mukasey is out there saying
1073 00:56:09 KSM broke like a dam after waterboarding.
1074 00:56:12 Where is he saying that?
1075 00:56:13 Wall Street Journal. I found a memo.
1076 00:56:16 It's from a few months back, in March.
1077 00:56:17 It's called "The Public Roll-out."
1078 00:56:19 The memo states the Agency wanted their PR people
1079 00:56:23 to connect the bin Laden raid to intel obtained via EITs
1080 00:56:27 before it even happened.
1081 00:56:29 So... if the CIA got bin Laden,
1082 00:56:32 then who cares what else it did?
1083 00:56:36 If it saved lives, there's no need for accountability.
1084 00:56:38 Exactly. They lied to Bush about the program.
1085 00:56:40 Now they're lying to President Obama.
1086 00:56:42 This document about bin Laden and, uh, the role of EITs,
1087 00:56:46 it just isn't true.
1088 00:56:55 You want me to get you the White House?
1089 00:56:59 Let's do that.
1090 00:57:03 It's very clear to us
1091 00:57:06 the EITs did not lead to bin Laden.
1092 00:57:09 The CIA is misrepresenting the operation.
1093 00:57:12 I'm sure you see that, don't you?
1094 00:57:14 I'm not sure I understand, Senator.
1095 00:57:16 The mission was a success; That's the headline here.
1096 00:57:19 This is a crucial moment in our nation's history.
1097 00:57:22 I want to make certain that the Agency isn't manipulating it
1098 00:57:27 to sanitize their own past actions.
1099 00:57:30 I will let the national security advisor know your concerns, Senator.
1100 00:57:34 - Thank you. - Thank you, Senator Feinstein.
1101 00:57:39 That's it?
1102 00:57:40 They don't care the story is wrong?
1103 00:57:44 Well, I don't think we can look to the White House for support.
1104 00:57:57 What the hell just happened?
1105 00:57:59 The CIA just got the president reelected.
1106 00:58:02 That's what happened.
1107 00:58:07 It was the greatest manhunt of all time.
1108 00:58:11 You think you know the story,
1109 00:58:14 but hold on to your seats.
1110 00:58:16 Zero Dark Thirty, the riveting new film,
1111 00:58:19 brings you the hunt for Osama bin Laden
1112 00:58:21 as it has never been seen before.
1113 00:58:39 This is it. The last guy we have.
1114 00:58:42 Number 119: Muhammad Rahim,
1115 00:58:45 captured June 2007.
1116 00:58:57 We kept Rahim awake
1117 00:58:58 for 138 hours straight.
1118 00:59:01 Used the attention grasp,
1119 00:59:04 facial hold, dietary manipulation.
1120 00:59:07 Abdominal slaps, stress positions.
1121 00:59:10 We even offered him a towel to wear if he cooperated.
1122 00:59:13 Gave us nothing.
1123 00:59:14 He said that, if we hurt him,
1124 00:59:18 he'd just make things up to get us to stop.
1125 00:59:20 And then he said he was at our mercy
1126 00:59:22 and we could kill him if we wanted.
1127 00:59:25 What's the point of moving forward without the waterboard?
1128 00:59:28 It's like trying to play baseball without the bat.
1129 00:59:30 We've been going at him for 60 days now,
1130 00:59:33 not getting anywhere.
1131 00:59:35 The problem is that CTC hasn't given us
1132 00:59:39 any good intel to question him about.
1133 00:59:42 We don't have any leverage.
1134 00:59:43 Hold on. You're the psychologists.
1135 00:59:45 You told me you were gonna get us intel.
1136 00:59:46 Now you're saying we need to give it to you?
1137 00:59:48 I'm thinking we improve his treatment for a week or two,
1138 00:59:54 give him some hope, and then we go back at him hard
1139 00:59:58 and create a sense of helplessness.
1140 01:00:00 Or we could try recruiting him.
1141 01:00:05 Tell him he can be a
1142 01:00:07 CIA agent if he talks.
1143 01:00:09 The FBI does that.
1144 01:00:10 We're not the FBI. We don't do that.
1145 01:00:12 The way the science works is
1146 01:00:14 we only get the intel after...
1147 01:00:17 After what?
1148 01:00:19 Why are so many of these guys still lying to us
1149 01:00:21 after you work on them?
1150 01:00:25 Where's the special sauce?
1151 01:00:29 You have to make this work. It's only legal if it works.
1152 01:00:34 The CIA's questioning of Muhammad Rahim
1153 01:00:36 resulted in zero intelligence reports.
1154 01:00:39 On April 21, 2008, the Agency convened
1155 01:00:42 an after-action review of his interrogation.
1156 01:00:45 Senator, I just want to point out that this is the first time
1157 01:00:46 the Agency stopped and evaluated the effectiveness of the program.
1158 01:00:51 And they concluded that, in the future,
1159 01:00:53 CIA interrogators should use rapport building.
1160 01:00:58 They even suggested asking other agencies,
1161 01:01:01 law enforcement, and even other countries
1162 01:01:03 about effective interrogation methods.
1163 01:01:07 So...
1164 01:01:11 For the past six years, there's been a steady stream of CIA personnel...
1165 01:01:16 directors, deputies, analysts...
1166 01:01:19 coming over here and telling me
1167 01:01:21 what an amazing success EITs have been.
1168 01:01:25 Somehow not even one of them managed to mention that part.
1169 01:01:35 How many detainees have been through the program in total?
1170 01:01:42 At least 119.
1171 01:01:46 The Agency admits a quarter of them
1172 01:01:47 should never have been detained.
1173 01:01:50 The EIT program never worked, not on anyone.
1174 01:02:04 Today, we are gathered to approve
1175 01:02:08 the committee's study of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program.
1176 01:02:14 I would like to thank Daniel Jones
1177 01:02:17 and his small staff who prepared this study.
1178 01:02:21 Clerk, would you call the roll?
1179 01:02:25 - Mr. Udall? - Yay.
1180 01:02:28 - Mr. Rubio? - Nay.
1181 01:02:31 - Mr. Rockefeller? - Yay.
1182 01:02:34 - Mr. Warner? - Yay.
1183 01:02:36 - Mr. Blunt? - Nay.
1184 01:02:39 - Mr. Conrad? - Yay.
1185 01:02:41 - Mr. Coats? - Nay.
1186 01:02:43 - Mr. Nelson? - Yay.
1187 01:02:46 - Mr. Risch? - Nay.
1188 01:02:48 - Ms. Mikulski? - Yay.
1189 01:02:51 - Mr. Burr? - Nay.
1190 01:02:53 - Mr. Wyden? - Yay.
1191 01:02:55 - Ms. Snowe? - Yay.
1192 01:02:58 - Mr. Chambliss? - Nay.
1193 01:03:02 Ms. Feinstein?
1194 01:03:04 Yay.
1195 01:03:09 The motion passes.
1196 01:03:11 The report will now be sent to the CIA for final comments.
1197 01:03:20 I, John Owen Brennan,
1198 01:03:21 do solemnly swear to tell the truth, the full truth,
1199 01:03:23 and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
1200 01:03:26 Thank you, Mr. Brennan.
1201 01:03:29 I look forward to hearing your testimony.
1202 01:03:34 I am honored to appear before you today
1203 01:03:36 as the president's nominee for director of the CIA.
1204 01:03:41 I'd like to say from the beginning that honesty... truthfulness...
1205 01:03:46 was a value inculcated in me growing up in New Jersey
1206 01:03:49 by my parents, Owen and Dorothy.
1207 01:03:51 Now, none of us are perfect beings.
1208 01:03:53 I am far from perfect.
1209 01:03:55 But I will be honest with this committee
1210 01:03:57 and do everything possible to meet your legitimate needs and requirements.
1211 01:04:02 Mr. Brennan,
1212 01:04:04 I've long believed that our government has an obligation
1213 01:04:06 to the American people to face its mistakes transparently,
1214 01:04:11 to help the public understand the nature of those mistakes,
1215 01:04:14 and to correct them.
1216 01:04:16 The enhanced interrogation techniques were brutal,
1217 01:04:20 and, perhaps most importantly, they did not work.
1218 01:04:23 Now, the CIA has a responsibility
1219 01:04:26 to correct any inaccurate information it provided
1220 01:04:28 to the previous White House, the Department of Justice,
1221 01:04:30 Congress and the public.
1222 01:04:32 So, here's my question:
1223 01:04:35 Do you agree that the CIA has this responsibility?
1224 01:04:38 And I'd appreciate a yes or no answer.
1225 01:04:42 Yes, Senator.
1226 01:04:46 Absolutely.
1227 01:04:49 Office of the chief of staff.
1228 01:04:51 Mr. McDonough is in a meeting right now.
1229 01:04:53 According to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll,
1230 01:04:55 the president's approval rating is at 44%.
1231 01:04:58 That's up three points since March...
1232 01:05:00 Excuse me. Mr. McDonough.
1233 01:05:02 Director Brennan is here.
1234 01:05:05 There he is.
1235 01:05:06 - Congratulations, Mr. Director. - Thank you.
1236 01:05:08 Welcome. Come on in. Thank you.
1237 01:05:10 Thank you and thank President Obama.
1238 01:05:13 I'll let him know.
1239 01:05:13 Speaking of, uh,
1240 01:05:16 he wanted me to ask you if there's any new information
1241 01:05:18 on the drone strikes of April 29th?
1242 01:05:21 We can confirm that the Al Qaeda planner
1243 01:05:24 Abu Sulayman al-Jazairi has been killed.
1244 01:05:28 Unfortunately, we also believe
1245 01:05:30 that there were between five and ten civilian casualties.
1246 01:05:34 Shit.
1247 01:05:36 Well, I'll let the president know.
1248 01:05:38 What about the Intelligence Committee report?
1249 01:05:40 We need to talk about that.
1250 01:05:42 John, w-we gave the CIA until February
1251 01:05:45 to come up with its response; it's now May.
1252 01:05:46 I've got Senator Feinstein all over my phone sheet.
1253 01:05:50 I don't want to be the one who has to push on this,
1254 01:05:51 but the president would really like to get this behind us.
1255 01:06:00 And?
1256 01:06:02 We acknowledge that
1257 01:06:04 the Detention and Interrogation Program had shortcomings
1258 01:06:06 and that the Agency made mistakes.
1259 01:06:08 The most serious of those occurred early on
1260 01:06:10 and stemmed from the fact that we were unprepared.
1261 01:06:15 Now, as you know, we part ways on some key points.
1262 01:06:19 According to our review, indications are that
1263 01:06:22 interrogations of detainees upon whom
1264 01:06:24 the enhanced interrogation techniques were used
1265 01:06:27 did produce unique intelligence
1266 01:06:30 that helped thwart attack plans,
1267 01:06:32 capture terrorists, and saved lives.
1268 01:06:34 Excuse me, intelligence gathered from EITs...
1269 01:06:35 And that intelligence continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts.
1270 01:06:40 It led us to bin Laden.
1271 01:06:43 Now, it's one thing to disapprove of the program.
1272 01:06:45 I-I welcome that conversation,
1273 01:06:47 but it's something else altogether
1274 01:06:48 to say that it was mismanaged and ineffective.
1275 01:06:50 Excuse me, Director Brennan.
1276 01:06:52 The report is based on CIA records.
1277 01:06:54 CIA officers themselves called it ineffective.
1278 01:06:57 CIA officers?
1279 01:06:59 Well, you didn't speak to any CIA officers in the program,
1280 01:07:01 did you, Dan?
1281 01:07:02 Your lawyers would not make them available to us
1282 01:07:05 because of the Department of Justice's criminal inquiry.
1283 01:07:08 We also disagree with the study's characterization of
1284 01:07:12 how the CIA briefed Congress, the White House and the press.
1285 01:07:16 Now, we have documentation that certainly proves that.
1286 01:07:18 Excuse me, sir, what documents?
1287 01:07:20 If the director is referencing
1288 01:07:21 cables or e-mails we were never shown,
1289 01:07:23 then that's a violation of our agreement.
1290 01:07:25 Everything was supposed to have been provided to us.
1291 01:07:27 Do we just give the committee access
1292 01:07:29 to the entire CIA computer system?
1293 01:07:31 Is that where this goes?
1294 01:07:33 Dan gets to read every e-mail, gets to see every document?
1295 01:07:37 Every relevant document or e-mail, yes.
1296 01:07:42 I have always supported the intelligence community.
1297 01:07:45 I broke with my own party
1298 01:07:47 to support the drone program,
1299 01:07:50 but what this report makes very clear
1300 01:07:53 is a real need for oversight and accountability.
1301 01:07:57 You asked for our response, and we gave it to you.
1302 01:07:59 We looked in the mirror.
1303 01:08:02 Now, we made mistakes.
1304 01:08:05 There were abuses, and those abuses have been addressed.
1305 01:08:08 But I-I vehemently disagree with the narrative
1306 01:08:12 that you're trying to string together here.
1307 01:08:14 It lacks context.
1308 01:08:16 It does not paint an accurate picture of the work that was done.
1309 01:08:20 Let's go.
1310 01:08:21 Senator, John Brennan's name is in that report.
1311 01:08:24 He was Director Tenet's chief of staff
1312 01:08:26 and then deputy executive director when the program started.
1313 01:08:29 - He grew up at the Agency. - He claims to have
1314 01:08:31 - spoken out against the EIT program... - Where?
1315 01:08:32 I just spent five years looking at their e-mails.
1316 01:08:34 I never found anything to suggest that's true.
1317 01:08:36 Well, we knew this wasn't going to be easy.
1318 01:08:39 They have their own narrative, and they're gonna stick to it.
1319 01:08:42 Maybe we could come up with some middle ground,
1320 01:08:44 - find some common language. - I thought our job
1321 01:08:46 was to provide oversight and accountability,
1322 01:08:48 not middle ground.
1323 01:08:50 I have a question for you.
1324 01:08:52 Do you work for me or for the report?
1325 01:08:56 And I'd encourage you to think about that before answering.
1326 01:09:14 Dan!
1327 01:09:15 Dan Jones.
1328 01:09:18 There he is.
1329 01:09:19 Look at you, chief investigator
1330 01:09:21 of the largest study the Senate's ever conducted.
1331 01:09:23 My God. How you doing?
1332 01:09:25 It's good to see you in the fresh air.
1333 01:09:27 - Yeah. - It's so funny.
1334 01:09:28 I was just thinking the other night,
1335 01:09:29 do you remember that time you came and saw me,
1336 01:09:32 right after you got out of school?
1337 01:09:34 You said go get intel experience,
1338 01:09:36 wait till the Dems got the Senate back.
1339 01:09:37 And look at you now:
1340 01:09:39 working for the Senate Intelligence Committee
1341 01:09:40 for Dianne Feinstein.
1342 01:09:42 You told me once you wanted to make a difference.
1343 01:09:44 I hope you still get that chance.
1344 01:09:46 - What does that mean? - What does that mean?
1345 01:09:48 It means, Dan,
1346 01:09:48 get out of the senator's head about the CIA.
1347 01:09:52 You're not doing yourself any favors.
1348 01:09:53 Have you read the report?
1349 01:09:55 It's 7,000 pages, Dan.
1350 01:09:58 The Bible tells the history of mankind in less than that.
1351 01:10:03 Look, buddy,
1352 01:10:05 we're gonna get the CIA to sit down with you,
1353 01:10:08 tell you their side of the story.
1354 01:10:10 It would help if you would listen.
1355 01:10:14 The study seems to most seriously diverge
1356 01:10:16 from the facts by asking the reader to believe
1357 01:10:19 the CIA withheld information
1358 01:10:21 from the executive branch and Congress.
1359 01:10:24 We'd like to see that removed from the report.
1360 01:10:27 After the photos of Abu Ghraib came out in 2004,
1361 01:10:29 Deputy Director McLaughlin appeared before Congress,
1362 01:10:31 in front of you, and said the CIA is not authorized
1363 01:10:34 to do anything like what you've seen in those photos.
1364 01:10:36 But what they were doing was even worse.
1365 01:10:38 Then in 2005, Senator Rockefeller
1366 01:10:41 called for a review of the program,
1367 01:10:42 and the deputy chief of Counterterrorism
1368 01:10:44 got nervous where that might lead.
1369 01:10:46 So he sent a message to senior leadership
1370 01:10:48 discussing the need to manage the situation.
1371 01:10:51 He said, "We either get out and sell, or we get hammered.
1372 01:10:55 Congress reads it, cuts our authorities,
1373 01:10:58 messes up our budget.
1374 01:10:59 We need to make sure
1375 01:11:01 the impression of what we do is positive."
1376 01:11:03 This is the deputy chief of Counterterrorism.
1377 01:11:06 That all stays in.
1378 01:11:09 We fundamentally disagree with the assertion
1379 01:11:11 that the program was poorly managed and executed
1380 01:11:14 and that unqualified officers imposed brutal conditions,
1381 01:11:17 used unapproved techniques, and were rarely held accountable.
1382 01:11:21 What about Mitchell and Jessen?
1383 01:11:23 Mitchell's PhD thesis was on diet and exercise
1384 01:11:26 for controlling hypertension.
1385 01:11:28 Jessen's dissertation was on family therapy,
1386 01:11:30 something called family sculpting,
1387 01:11:32 where you make clay figures of your family members.
1388 01:11:34 - No. How much were they paid? - They had no experience
1389 01:11:35 in real-world interrogations.
1390 01:11:36 No science to back up their claims.
1391 01:11:38 They were allowed to assess
1392 01:11:39 the effectiveness of their own program
1393 01:11:41 without providing any scientific evidence.
1394 01:11:43 How much in total
1395 01:11:45 did the U.S. Taxpayers give them for their work?
1396 01:11:49 Over $80 million.
1397 01:11:51 The Agency also disagrees that
1398 01:11:54 the Detention and Interrogation Program did not produce
1399 01:11:57 unique intelligence that disrupted plots
1400 01:12:00 and saved lives.
1401 01:12:04 the "Dirty bomber."
1402 01:12:06 If we hadn't stopped Padilla,
1403 01:12:07 this entire area would be radioactive today.
1404 01:12:12 Padilla found the instructions for his dirty bomb online,
1405 01:12:16 in-in an article entitled "Making and owning an H-bomb
1406 01:12:19 is the kind of challenge real Americans seek."
1407 01:12:22 It says, "Fill two buckets with uranium
1408 01:12:25 and swing them above your head as fast as possible."
1409 01:12:29 It was a joke.
1410 01:12:30 As far as we can tell,
1411 01:12:31 everything they attribute to EITs they already had,
1412 01:12:34 from other sources, from foreign governments,
1413 01:12:36 from other methods.
1414 01:12:38 They claim they saved lives, but what they really did
1415 01:12:40 was make it impossible to prosecute
1416 01:12:42 a mass murderer like KSM, because if what we did to him
1417 01:12:46 ever came out in a court of law, the case is over.
1418 01:12:49 The guy planned 9/11,
1419 01:12:51 and instead of going to jail for the rest of his life,
1420 01:12:53 the CIA turned him into a recruiting tool
1421 01:12:55 for a war we're still fighting.
1422 01:13:01 Stop meeting with them.
1423 01:13:10 This is a remarkable document you've created.
1424 01:13:13 Truly.
1425 01:13:15 It will provide an enduring history,
1426 01:13:18 whether it comes out or not.
1427 01:13:27 What does that mean, "W-whether it comes out or not"?
1428 01:13:28 What does she mean?
1429 01:13:31 What does that mean?
1430 01:13:32 We've been working on this thing for nearly five years.
1431 01:13:34 Yes, and it is still our word against theirs.
1432 01:13:37 She's gonna need more than that.
1433 01:13:57 This is Jones.
1434 01:13:58 Hey, Dan, this is Evan Tanner.
1435 01:13:59 I hear rumors the report might not be coming out now.
1436 01:14:03 A lot of pushback from the Agency.
1437 01:14:05 - They're calling it "flawed." - Who told you that?
1438 01:14:09 Dan, I'm the national security reporter
1439 01:14:11 for The New York Times.
1440 01:14:12 Do you have any thoughts?
1441 01:14:16 It's not my place to talk about rumors.
1442 01:14:18 No, I didn't think you would.
1443 01:14:19 I was wondering if you might want to comment.
1444 01:14:22 It can be off the record.
1445 01:14:25 I just think we can help each other here.
1446 01:14:29 You know I can't do that.
1447 01:14:34 And here's what we know about Caroline Krass:
1448 01:14:36 20 years in the executive branch,
1449 01:14:38 including the Office of Legal Counsel
1450 01:14:40 where she worked with John Yoo.
1451 01:14:41 Guys, this confirmation's a done deal.
1452 01:14:44 We're not gonna stop it.
1453 01:14:46 But it is a public hearing, and it just seems like
1454 01:14:50 there's an opportunity to say something.
1455 01:14:53 Wh-What are you looking for, Senator?
1456 01:14:55 I don't know, something to move the study forward,
1457 01:14:57 to break us out of this stalemate.
1458 01:15:02 Any ideas?
1459 01:15:09 Senator, there is a document.
1460 01:15:50 You ever sleep, bro?
1461 01:15:52 I used to.
1462 01:15:54 Got in the way of work.
1463 01:15:55 Anything in that bag contain the real names of CIA officers,
1464 01:15:58 assets or partners, or any information
1465 01:16:01 that would be in violation of the agreement between
1466 01:16:03 the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Senate?
1467 01:16:06 - Have a good night, Jay. - You, too, Dan.
1468 01:17:01 The committee will come to order.
1469 01:17:04 Today, we are gathered for the confirmation hearing
1470 01:17:07 of Caroline Krass to be general counsel of the CIA.
1471 01:17:12 Welcome, Ms. Krass.
1472 01:17:15 I'm honored to be here before the committee,
1473 01:17:17 and I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge my family
1474 01:17:20 and thank them for their support.
1475 01:17:22 Thank you.
1476 01:17:24 Before we begin, I would like to remind members
1477 01:17:27 not to discuss classified topics
1478 01:17:29 or ask questions which require a classified answer.
1479 01:17:33 With that said, I turn to Senator Udall.
1480 01:17:36 Ms. Krass, nice to see you again.
1481 01:17:38 We had a chance to sit down last week
1482 01:17:40 and discuss the Senate's study
1483 01:17:41 on the Detention and Interrogation Program.
1484 01:17:44 You told me you found the study to be hard reading.
1485 01:17:49 Also, last week, a number of articles appeared
1486 01:17:51 discussing the one-year anniversary
1487 01:17:53 of the vote to approve the committee's study.
1488 01:17:56 And in one of those articles,
1489 01:17:57 the CIA claimed to have found significant errors.
1490 01:18:01 Now, I got to tell you, I don't believe that is accurate.
1491 01:18:05 In fact, I'm more confident than ever
1492 01:18:08 in the factual accuracy of the committee's study.
1493 01:18:12 I want to say that again: I'm more confident than ever.
1494 01:18:17 It appears that the CIA performed their own study of the EIT program,
1495 01:18:21 initiated by former Director Panetta.
1496 01:18:25 And the findings in that review
1497 01:18:27 are entirely consistent with our committee's report,
1498 01:18:30 but amazingly conflicts with
1499 01:18:33 the CIA's official response to that report.
1500 01:18:38 So, why is a review the CIA conducted internally,
1501 01:18:41 and never revealed to Congress,
1502 01:18:44 so different from the CIA's formal response to the committee's report?
1503 01:18:49 Do you have an answer for that?
1504 01:18:55 not at this time.
1505 01:19:01 If I wanted the public to know about the Panetta review,
1506 01:19:04 I would have told them myself.
1507 01:19:06 We hear that the Republicans
1508 01:19:07 are gonna censure Udall for that performance.
1509 01:19:09 But the review proves our point.
1510 01:19:10 They found the same things we did.
1511 01:19:12 The Agency didn't know how or where to hold people,
1512 01:19:14 didn't know how to interrogate people,
1513 01:19:16 and, more importantly, the CIA did give it to us.
1514 01:19:19 I don't know if it was an accident
1515 01:19:21 or it was a whistle-blower.
1516 01:19:22 Well, if it was a whistle-blower,
1517 01:19:24 you may have just exposed them.
1518 01:19:26 Not to mention yourself.
1519 01:20:26 We got something here.
1520 01:20:28 The director has asked me here today
1521 01:20:30 in my capacity as Agency legal counsel.
1522 01:20:32 What we have to discuss has serious implications.
1523 01:20:37 All right.
1524 01:20:38 We have proof that the staff
1525 01:20:40 of the Senate Intelligence Committee
1526 01:20:41 illegally gained access to the CIA's computer network
1527 01:20:44 and obtained classified documents.
1528 01:20:47 What kind of proof?
1529 01:20:48 We found the document in question
1530 01:20:50 on Daniel Jones's computer.
1531 01:20:52 We did not provide it to him or to the committee.
1532 01:20:55 If he didn't hack us, how did it get there?
1533 01:20:59 We feel that Jones and his team need to be disciplined.
1534 01:21:04 Immediate dismissal is in order,
1535 01:21:07 at a minimum, I would think.
1536 01:21:10 John, are you saying that you broke into the computer system
1537 01:21:15 of the United States Senate?
1538 01:21:16 We never gave you clearance on that document.
1539 01:21:18 It was classified, yet you chose to make it public.
1540 01:21:22 We've made our investigation and our findings
1541 01:21:23 known to the White House.
1542 01:21:26 You're fucking kidding me.
1543 01:21:29 They're saying I broke into
1544 01:21:31 the most top secret computer system in the world?
1545 01:21:33 - Brennan and Eastman came over... - Eastman?
1546 01:21:35 Eastman's name is in the report over a thousand times.
1547 01:21:38 - That's not a conflict? - Dan.
1548 01:21:40 They filed a criminal referral against you.
1549 01:21:44 They want you gone.
1550 01:21:48 H-How did the Agency come to the conclusion that I'm a hacker?
1551 01:21:53 H-How do they even know what's on my computer?
1552 01:21:54 They say they conducted a search.
1553 01:21:56 Of the United States Senate?
1554 01:21:58 The whole reason this committee was established in the first place
1555 01:22:00 was to stop the CIA from spying on U.S. Citizens.
1556 01:22:03 The senator is talking to Harry Reid about
1557 01:22:04 - that very thing... - Did they go into that room?
1558 01:22:06 That room is off-limits. Did they go into that fucking room?
1559 01:22:08 I don't know.
1560 01:22:11 I don't know.
1561 01:22:15 I do know that the Republicans are gonna run with this.
1562 01:22:18 They're gonna use it to discredit the report.
1563 01:22:19 They're gonna use it to discredit you.
1564 01:22:24 Dan, they're accusing you of breaking the law.
1565 01:22:26 You're gonna need a lawyer.
1566 01:22:33 There's a saying at the Agency:
1567 01:22:35 "Admit nothing,
1568 01:22:36 deny everything, make counteraccusations."
1569 01:22:38 That's what they're doing.
1570 01:22:41 The CIA is investigating you for...
1571 01:22:43 They're the ones who should be investigated, not me.
1572 01:22:45 Mr. Jones? Mr. Clifford will see you now.
1573 01:22:48 Our computer system
1574 01:22:49 isn't even connected to the CIA mainframe.
1575 01:22:52 So did I just go over to Langley
1576 01:22:53 and break in on a weekend?
1577 01:22:55 Seems unlikely.
1578 01:22:57 So what evidence do they have?
1579 01:23:00 A document.
1580 01:23:02 A document? What kind of a document?
1581 01:23:07 I can't tell you that.
1582 01:23:09 Because, what, it's classified?
1583 01:23:12 I was tasked to lead an investigation
1584 01:23:14 into a CIA program they started after 9/11,
1585 01:23:17 what they called enhanced interrogation.
1586 01:23:19 And I assume your work is critical of the Agency?
1587 01:23:26 You know, Dan, a lot of people in this country
1588 01:23:27 felt the CIA was justified in doing
1589 01:23:29 whatever they had to do to keep us safe.
1590 01:23:32 I have friends who lost people that day.
1591 01:23:34 And a lot of people watch 24 on Thursday nights
1592 01:23:36 and hear Jack Bauer say,
1593 01:23:38 "I don't want to bypass the Constitution,
1594 01:23:39 but these are extraordinary circumstances,"
1595 01:23:41 just before, you know, he sticks a knife in them
1596 01:23:44 and makes them give up a plot.
1597 01:23:45 It-it doesn't work that way.
1598 01:23:48 Well, as Winston Churchill said,
1599 01:23:52 "History is written by the victors."
1600 01:23:57 Churchill didn't really say that; Hermann Goring did.
1601 01:23:59 And what he said was, "We will go down in history
1602 01:24:02 either as the world's greatest statesmen
1603 01:24:03 or its worst villains."
1604 01:24:05 So your report is gonna determine that:
1605 01:24:08 statesmen or villains?
1606 01:24:15 How long have you been working on this project, Dan?
1607 01:24:18 Five years.
1608 01:24:20 Five years, and it could all go away,
1609 01:24:23 just vanish in the face of these allegations.
1610 01:24:26 I can certainly imagine
1611 01:24:28 an ambitious young man like yourself spends years
1612 01:24:30 with his head buried in some terrible spectacle,
1613 01:24:34 gets frustrated with the process,
1614 01:24:36 sees an opportunity to get the truth out faster,
1615 01:24:39 maybe crosses a line.
1616 01:24:40 I'm assuming this is the most important thing
1617 01:24:42 - you've ever been a part of. - I didn't do it.
1618 01:24:43 Or I can see an equally ambitious senator
1619 01:24:45 encouraging you to do something.
1620 01:24:46 Now would be a good time to tell me.
1621 01:24:48 That did not happen.
1622 01:24:49 What I did, I did on my own. I acted alone.
1623 01:24:52 - So you did steal the document? - I did not steal it.
1624 01:24:53 - You needed it to... - I relocated it.
1625 01:24:55 I put it in a safe.
1626 01:24:56 If they had a way of destroying tapes,
1627 01:24:57 - then surely they could get... - Everyone has their own words.
1628 01:24:59 The language is built to choose sides.
1629 01:25:01 Now, why did you relocate it?
1630 01:25:08 Documents had a way of disappearing off the server.
1631 01:25:11 For instance, in 2010, over 800 documents
1632 01:25:14 just vanished without any explanation.
1633 01:25:17 So you had computer issues all along.
1634 01:25:21 Who else knew what was on the computers?
1635 01:25:23 Well, the CIA hired an outside firm to vet the documents:
1636 01:25:26 Centra.
1637 01:25:27 And CACI was also involved.
1638 01:25:29 - Who are they? - Contractors.
1639 01:25:31 But Jim Pavitt is on their board.
1640 01:25:34 Former deputy director of operations for the CIA,
1641 01:25:37 Jim Pavitt, during the program, Jim Pavitt.
1642 01:25:40 And is he named in the report?
1643 01:25:43 Can't tell me.
1644 01:25:46 So they can't destroy the document.
1645 01:25:48 Then they can go after the next best thing: you.
1646 01:25:52 Make you a zealot.
1647 01:25:54 Anything you touch is tainted.
1648 01:25:57 I could see the Agency saying that
1649 01:25:59 this is a violation of the Espionage Act,
1650 01:26:01 the... Computer Fraud and Abuse Act,
1651 01:26:04 who knows what else.
1652 01:26:07 And if they file a charge against me,
1653 01:26:08 how long could I go away for?
1654 01:26:11 I don't know. 20 years, maybe more.
1655 01:26:24 I did not hack into the CIA computer system.
1656 01:26:29 I mean, my com... my computer skills stop at Microsoft Word.
1657 01:26:33 They probably know that.
1658 01:26:36 Let me ask you something:
1659 01:26:36 How much does a Senate staffer make?
1660 01:26:39 At my level? About-about a hundred grand.
1661 01:26:41 Any retirement, savings, family money?
1662 01:26:43 No.
1663 01:26:46 So, we should discuss my retainer.
1664 01:26:48 - How much is that? - $30,000 to start.
1665 01:26:51 And if it goes to trial, add a zero.
1666 01:26:55 Nothing could make them happier
1667 01:26:57 than knowing you're sitting here talking to me.
1668 01:26:59 That's what they want, Dan.
1669 01:27:01 Make you bleed money all over my floor.
1670 01:27:05 Do you want my expert opinion, for free?
1671 01:27:08 You don't really have a legal problem.
1672 01:27:11 You have a sunlight problem.
1673 01:27:15 I'm sure you know people who can help you solve it.
1674 01:27:31 Daniel Jones.
1675 01:27:33 I didn't think you'd ever return my calls.
1676 01:27:35 Does your boss know you're talking to a guy
1677 01:27:36 with a byline and a tape recorder?
1678 01:27:37 There's something going on I think you should look into.
1679 01:27:40 It involves the Agency.
1680 01:27:43 Okay. Is it that report you've been working on,
1681 01:27:46 the one that never quite comes out?
1682 01:27:47 Computers. It has to do with the hacking of computers.
1683 01:27:51 All right, whose?
1684 01:27:54 The United States Senate.
1685 01:27:57 Someone hacked into the Senate?
1686 01:28:01 No shit? Okay.
1687 01:28:03 You have any idea if it was foreign or domestic?
1688 01:28:06 All right, yes, you...
1689 01:28:08 sorry, you said it was the Agency.
1690 01:28:09 So what-what does the CIA have to do with U.S. Senate computers?
1691 01:28:13 Evan, you're the national security reporter for The New York Times.
1692 01:28:15 You can figure it out. All right?
1693 01:28:24 Morning, Senator.
1694 01:28:25 You wanted to see me?
1695 01:28:27 You know anything about this?
1696 01:28:29 "Computer Searches at Center of Dispute on CIA Detentions."
1697 01:28:33 You have any idea how that ended up in The New York Times?
1698 01:28:36 Yeah, I saw that. It looks accurate.
1699 01:28:38 Senator McCain is already calling the CIA a rogue agency.
1700 01:28:41 What are your thoughts on someone like Edward Snowden, Dan?
1701 01:28:46 Well, Senator, I know how you feel about leaks.
1702 01:28:48 I think he's a traitor, plain and simple.
1703 01:28:51 It's my job to provide oversight
1704 01:28:53 with the tools of governance,
1705 01:28:54 not lights and cameras and headlines.
1706 01:29:01 Do you want me to resign?
1707 01:29:07 No.
1708 01:29:09 But I think I might need you to write me a speech.
1709 01:29:16 Senator Feinstein claimed today on the Senate floor
1710 01:29:20 that the CIA hacked the Senate Intelligence Committee's computers
1711 01:29:23 to thwart an investigation into past practices.
1712 01:29:26 Can you respond to that?
1713 01:29:27 Well, first, we in no way, shape or form
1714 01:29:31 tried to thwart the release of the report.
1715 01:29:35 We want that behind us.
1716 01:29:37 As far as this allegation that
1717 01:29:38 the CIA somehow hacked into the Senate computer system,
1718 01:29:44 nothing could be further from the truth.
1719 01:29:46 We just wouldn't do that.
1720 01:29:49 It's beyond the scope of reason.
1721 01:30:01 Thank you.
1722 01:30:03 I understand your position, Senator,
1723 01:30:05 and I am aware of Director Brennan's comments.
1724 01:30:07 Did you hear what Lindsey Graham said this morning,
1725 01:30:09 about the Agency breaking into our computers?
1726 01:30:13 "The legislative branch should declare war on the CIA.
1727 01:30:16 Heads should roll, people should go to jail."
1728 01:30:20 Is that what you want? Send people to jail?
1729 01:30:23 We do have jails for a reason.
1730 01:30:26 The Justice Department investigated the CIA,
1731 01:30:28 and they decided not to prosecute.
1732 01:30:30 It's their call, not ours.
1733 01:30:33 Now, when this administration took office,
1734 01:30:34 we faced the very real possibility of economic collapse.
1735 01:30:39 We had a decision to make:
1736 01:30:40 Do we spend our political capital on going around
1737 01:30:43 trying to find people to blame, or do we solve the problem?
1738 01:30:45 Maybe the way to solve the problem
1739 01:30:47 is to hold people accountable.
1740 01:30:49 Do you ever wonder why history repeats itself?
1741 01:30:52 Well, I think maybe it's because
1742 01:30:54 we don't always listen the first time.
1743 01:30:55 Senator, the people at the Agency... they have families.
1744 01:30:59 There are children who might lose a parent.
1745 01:31:04 Years ago, some radical group put a bomb in the flower box
1746 01:31:09 outside of my daughter's bedroom window, right out here.
1747 01:31:12 Had it been any warmer out, it would have exploded.
1748 01:31:15 And then there was the time
1749 01:31:16 that I found Harvey Milk shot to death in his office.
1750 01:31:21 I-I think I'm aware of the risks of public service.
1751 01:31:25 President Obama ended the torture program
1752 01:31:27 three days after taking office.
1753 01:31:30 The EITs, what the CIA did... that is not our mess.
1754 01:31:34 No, it's not,
1755 01:31:36 but that's not the question we're asking, is it?
1756 01:31:39 The question we're asking is: Who is going to clean it up?
1757 01:31:44 So let's do that.
1758 01:31:46 Right after Director Brennan apologizes to me and my staff.
1759 01:31:52 The Inspector General is here.
1760 01:31:54 Go ahead in.
1761 01:31:55 In regards to the CIA search of Senate computers,
1762 01:31:59 we've looked into the matter
1763 01:32:01 and have recommended that the Department of Justice
1764 01:32:05 begin a criminal investigation.
1765 01:32:07 Good.
1766 01:32:08 So have we.
1767 01:32:10 Dan Jones, lead Senate investigator.
1768 01:32:12 Not the Senate staff.
1769 01:32:14 The CIA.
1770 01:32:16 Us?
1771 01:32:18 Are-are you accusing me or my staff of breaking the law?
1772 01:32:21 My understanding is that five CIA employees
1773 01:32:24 entered a room that was off-limits.
1774 01:32:27 On whose orders?
1775 01:32:28 Senator Feinstein is right to call
1776 01:32:30 this a violation of the separation of powers.
1777 01:32:33 The CIA cannot spy on the U.S. Congress.
1778 01:32:40 As inspector general, I'm gonna have to launch
1779 01:32:42 a full investigation into the Agency's actions.
1780 01:33:06 Am I going to jail?
1781 01:33:07 No, they're dropping the charges.
1782 01:33:09 You're going back to work.
1783 01:33:11 Take the most important findings, finish the summary...
1784 01:33:14 no more than 400 pages.
1785 01:33:16 I'm going to ask the committee to vote to release it.
1786 01:33:26 So, you saw they voted.
1787 01:33:28 11 to three.
1788 01:33:29 They want to release an executive summary.
1789 01:33:31 That thing goes out, it puts my people in danger,
1790 01:33:34 who are out there in a dangerous world today,
1791 01:33:37 trying to do their jobs.
1792 01:33:38 Pulls the rug out from under them.
1793 01:33:40 Anything that you feel puts your people in harm's way
1794 01:33:43 stays classified.
1795 01:33:44 My concern is this:
1796 01:33:45 If-if the Senate puts out a small pile of pages
1797 01:33:48 and the press goes nuts,
1798 01:33:49 then everybody's gonna want to see a bigger pile of pages.
1799 01:33:52 You keep saying the president wants to turn the page.
1800 01:33:54 Well, then turn the page.
1801 01:33:57 Close the damn book.
1802 01:34:05 Senator Feinstein has asked the White House
1803 01:34:07 to head up final comments and redactions.
1804 01:34:10 She wants us right in the middle of it.
1805 01:34:14 And?
1806 01:34:15 And I think that's exactly where you want us.
1807 01:34:19 You'll have the pen.
1808 01:34:24 Leadership specified
1809 01:34:25 that we should redact anything that could result in
1810 01:34:26 legal exposure for officers in the field,
1811 01:34:29 past or present.
1812 01:34:31 Basically, if there's any questions, black it out.
1813 01:34:41 You see this?
1814 01:34:51 What the...
1815 01:34:53 fuck is this?
1816 01:34:58 Good afternoon. Where's Marcy?
1817 01:34:59 Conference room.
1818 01:35:00 Early the next week.
1819 01:35:02 Wednesday.
1820 01:35:05 Yeah, that'll work.
1821 01:35:06 And you get me the agenda. Thank you.
1822 01:35:11 Imagine you pick up a book,
1823 01:35:13 and "Blank" turns water into wine on page 237,
1824 01:35:16 and on page 71 "Blank" Heals a leper,
1825 01:35:19 and on page 295 "Blank" rises from the dead.
1826 01:35:23 How do you know the blanks are all the same person?
1827 01:35:25 I thought that the CIA agreed to using pseudonyms.
1828 01:35:28 They did, but now even the fake names are gone.
1829 01:35:31 And the dates.
1830 01:35:35 The entire story is gone.
1831 01:35:45 I hope you took your strong pills today.
1832 01:35:49 Isn't it enough to know what actually happened?
1833 01:35:51 Do we need to know the names of the people involved?
1834 01:35:53 But the actual names aren't in the report.
1835 01:35:56 Someone could figure out who our people are
1836 01:35:57 based on their pseudonyms.
1837 01:35:59 You know, I found a photo of my husband
1838 01:36:01 on the Internet linking him to me.
1839 01:36:03 Secrecy is very hard to maintain.
1840 01:36:04 I believe you introduced your husband publicly
1841 01:36:06 at your confirmation hearing.
1842 01:36:07 It was on C-SPAN.
1843 01:36:09 Some of these people... they are out there in the world, right now.
1844 01:36:12 Yes, they are.
1845 01:36:13 There's an officer from Alec Station
1846 01:36:15 mentioned 41 times in 500 pages.
1847 01:36:17 In 1998, her team missed the bombing
1848 01:36:19 of the U.S. Embassy in Kenya and Tanzania.
1849 01:36:22 1999, they missed the bombing
1850 01:36:23 of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad.
1851 01:36:25 In 2000, she was made aware of two Al Qaeda operatives
1852 01:36:28 who arrived in Los Angeles.
1853 01:36:30 FBI officers, working within the bin Laden unit,
1854 01:36:32 requested permission to investigate.
1855 01:36:34 That's not how we want to play it.
1856 01:36:36 The CIA knew they were on American soil
1857 01:36:38 and didn't do anything.
1858 01:36:40 Al-Mihdhar then left the States
1859 01:36:41 to play a key role in the bombing of the USS Cole,
1860 01:36:44 before returning to hijack Flight 77 with al-Hazmi
1861 01:36:47 and crash into the Pentagon.
1862 01:36:48 And you want to protect this person's identity.
1863 01:36:51 We'd also like to redact the pseudonyms of the contractors.
1864 01:36:54 Dr. Mitchell was already quoted by name in The New Yorker.
1865 01:36:58 He was handing out brochures at professional conferences
1866 01:37:00 telling people he worked for the CIA.
1867 01:37:02 If we are protecting the identities of CIA staff,
1868 01:37:05 we need to protect our contractors as well.
1869 01:37:08 Mitchell and Jessen were given a contract by the Agency
1870 01:37:10 for a program that didn't work.
1871 01:37:12 The CIA also agreed to a five million dollar
1872 01:37:14 indemnification clause for their company that covered,
1873 01:37:16 among other expenses, criminal prosecution.
1874 01:37:20 You know, I kept the rag we used on KSM.
1875 01:37:24 You should eBay that bad boy when this is all over.
1876 01:37:27 Make a mint.
1877 01:37:30 An internal CIA memo concluded
1878 01:37:32 that Mitchell and Jessen "have both shown blatant disregard
1879 01:37:35 for the ethics shared by almost all of their colleagues."
1880 01:37:38 The pseudonyms for the contractors need to stay.
1881 01:37:43 Guys, we've been at this for months.
1882 01:37:45 What about the locations of the black sites?
1883 01:37:46 The country names?
1884 01:37:47 We made commitments to those countries to maintain their secrecy.
1885 01:37:51 No country names.
1886 01:37:52 Not open to negotiating these points.
1887 01:37:54 We need to consider the morale of the CIA here.
1888 01:37:56 Now, we-we publish this report,
1889 01:37:58 - there's a very good chance we could lose them. - Lose them?
1890 01:38:00 What does that mean?
1891 01:38:01 What about the morale of all the people at the Agency
1892 01:38:03 who spoke out against the program?
1893 01:38:05 What about them?
1894 01:38:06 People who sent cables back from black sites
1895 01:38:09 saying they wanted to be transferred
1896 01:38:10 because they were disgusted by what was being done.
1897 01:38:12 All right, look.
1898 01:38:13 We have... Dan more than anyone...
1899 01:38:16 have worked to uncover the truth about this
1900 01:38:18 when no one else would.
1901 01:38:19 We will not allow this to be covered up
1902 01:38:21 by the executive branch.
1903 01:38:23 President Obama called it torture.
1904 01:38:24 Bush and Cheney wouldn't do that.
1905 01:38:26 He signed an executive order getting rid of it.
1906 01:38:30 Now, just imagine, God forbid,
1907 01:38:31 there's another terrorist attack on our watch.
1908 01:38:34 There won't be another Democrat
1909 01:38:36 in the White House for 20 years.
1910 01:38:38 I'd also like to talk about the redactions concerning KSM.
1911 01:38:42 Cory Gardner, the Republican challenger,
1912 01:38:45 will be the next United States senator
1913 01:38:46 from the state of Colorado,
1914 01:38:48 defeating the Democratic incumbent, Mark Udall.
1915 01:38:51 A major, major win for the Republicans.
1916 01:38:54 Chris Frates is standing by in Colorado.
1917 01:38:56 This is huge for, uh, Colorado, Wolf.
1918 01:38:58 This is the first time a Republican has won
1919 01:39:01 the Senate race state-wide in Colorado since 2002.
1920 01:39:05 Big night for Colorado,
1921 01:39:06 and a big night for control of the United States Senate.
1922 01:39:12 She's expecting you.
1923 01:39:15 So, I just got a call
1924 01:39:17 from Secretary of State Kerry.
1925 01:39:20 He thinks that, with the release of the report,
1926 01:39:23 that the coalition against ISIL could collapse.
1927 01:39:28 Isn't that a bit convenient?
1928 01:39:29 - He calls you just before... - Dan.
1929 01:39:31 Where did Kerry get his intel on this? The CIA?
1930 01:39:34 - Is it credible? - Embassies could be attacked.
1931 01:39:37 Hostages could be killed.
1932 01:39:38 It's just another stall tactic.
1933 01:39:42 He suggested giving the report to the president,
1934 01:39:45 so that it could be released later, when hostilities cease.
1935 01:39:49 You lose control of the committee in a week, Senator.
1936 01:39:51 Yes, I am aware of what happens
1937 01:39:53 when the Republicans are in the majority, Dan.
1938 01:39:58 Look, I want to get this report out as much as anyone,
1939 01:40:01 but I have known him a long time.
1940 01:40:04 I tend to believe him.
1941 01:40:05 Nobody else is gonna tell this story.
1942 01:40:07 - Dan, the senator has a luncheon. - If we stop now,
1943 01:40:08 aren't we a part of the cover-up?
1944 01:40:10 Strong pills, Senator?
1945 01:40:21 I think you should go home and get some rest.
1946 01:40:25 You look tired.
1947 01:40:28 Marcy, if I could have five minutes.
1948 01:40:31 Of course.
1949 01:42:11 Did you ever meet a guy called Greg Craig?
1950 01:42:16 Just in pa... White House counsel when Obama took office?
1951 01:42:19 - Just in passing. - Right.
1952 01:42:22 So, right after he got elected, the president asked Craig
1953 01:42:26 to come up with a plan to deal with
1954 01:42:28 the aftermath of the torture program.
1955 01:42:30 So, he got Secretary of Defense Gates, Janet Napolitano,
1956 01:42:33 Hillary Clinton... serious people... in a room,
1957 01:42:36 and he asked for their recommendation.
1958 01:42:39 - And? - And the consensus was that
1959 01:42:43 the president should appoint an independent bipartisan commission
1960 01:42:46 into interrogations and detainee treatment,
1961 01:42:49 like a deep dive into what worked and what didn't
1962 01:42:51 and... who was responsible.
1963 01:42:55 You know, like what they did after 9/11,
1964 01:42:56 and like what you've been trying to do.
1965 01:43:00 So why didn't they do that?
1966 01:43:01 Well, evidently, the president listened closely
1967 01:43:04 to the recommendation.
1968 01:43:06 He then thought about it, and then he said no.
1969 01:43:11 He'd spent an entire campaign saying he was post-partisan,
1970 01:43:15 so going after the Bush administration
1971 01:43:17 flew in the face of all that.
1972 01:43:19 And right then, everyone in that room changed their minds.
1973 01:43:24 They sided with the president: no independent commission.
1974 01:43:28 Everyone except Craig,
1975 01:43:31 because he thought it was too important.
1976 01:43:34 You couldn't just torture people,
1977 01:43:37 lie about it, and then hide it from history.
1978 01:43:41 A few months later, Craig was gone,
1979 01:43:44 and this mess wound up with the Senate.
1980 01:43:47 And you.
1981 01:43:49 Well, the president must have known that, by doing that,
1982 01:43:51 he was making it next to impossible.
1983 01:43:53 He came from the Senate.
1984 01:43:56 Dan, they sent you off to build a boat,
1985 01:43:59 but they had no intention of sailing it.
1986 01:44:02 They probably didn't think you'd get as far as you did.
1987 01:44:09 Let me ask you a question.
1988 01:44:11 If the CIA knew that torture didn't work,
1989 01:44:15 why did they continue to do it?
1990 01:44:18 After 9/11, everyone was scared...
1991 01:44:23 ...scared it might happen again,
1992 01:44:25 and the CIA would be blamed if it did.
1993 01:44:27 Or maybe they were ashamed.
1994 01:44:29 You know, how come the most sophisticated
1995 01:44:31 intelligence organization on Earth
1996 01:44:33 couldn't keep its own people safe?
1997 01:44:36 But fear and shame don't make for better policy decisions,
1998 01:44:39 and the fact that the people who we captured
1999 01:44:40 didn't look like us or believe the same things we do
2000 01:44:43 made it that much easier to do the things we did.
2001 01:44:45 So once the CIA program started,
2002 01:44:47 they had to keep telling people it worked,
2003 01:44:48 even if it wasn't true.
2004 01:44:49 Their own position was that if it didn't work, it was illegal.
2005 01:44:53 So they misrepresented the results.
2006 01:45:08 If we had your report, we would print it tomorrow.
2007 01:45:13 All of it.
2008 01:45:16 The senator said she would release a summary of the report.
2009 01:45:19 Really?
2010 01:45:20 Over the objections of the CIA and the White House?
2011 01:45:22 You really think that's gonna happen?
2012 01:45:23 If I gave it to you, what would happen?
2013 01:45:33 Some people will think you're a hero,
2014 01:45:34 and some will probably think you're a traitor.
2015 01:45:37 Look at Edward Snowden.
2016 01:45:49 No. If it's gonna come out,
2017 01:45:50 it's gonna come out the right way.
2018 01:45:53 What if it doesn't?
2019 01:45:55 Then I didn't do my job.
2020 01:46:00 I'm sorry.
2021 01:46:02 Sorry.
2022 01:46:50 So, with the Affordable Care Act behind us,
2023 01:46:53 the president would like to
2024 01:46:54 begin a serious discussion about immigration reform.
2025 01:46:57 Now, obviously we've had some setbacks
2026 01:46:59 in both the House and the Senate,
2027 01:47:02 so strategy has become paramount... unity as well.
2028 01:47:05 So, we would like to really start talking about...
2029 01:47:08 Excuse me, Mr. McDonough.
2030 01:47:10 I would like to discuss the report on the CIA
2031 01:47:12 and the White House's position.
2032 01:47:14 That's not the topic of this particular caucus.
2033 01:47:17 The president would like to discuss...
2034 01:47:18 Our country did things the Nazis did,
2035 01:47:21 things that made us condemn other regimes.
2036 01:47:24 And the position of this administration
2037 01:47:27 is to suppress this information,
2038 01:47:28 to keep the people who did these things safe?
2039 01:47:30 I can assure you that is not
2040 01:47:32 the position of this administration, Senator.
2041 01:47:34 You worked with John Brennan
2042 01:47:36 at the National Security Council.
2043 01:47:38 Now, I understand that Brennan gave this president
2044 01:47:41 his first security briefing when he took office.
2045 01:47:43 And now CIA Director Brennan
2046 01:47:45 is working closely with the president on the drone program.
2047 01:47:49 You know, it's funny.
2048 01:47:50 Every time I go over to the CIA,
2049 01:47:52 they claim I'm doing the Senate's bidding,
2050 01:47:53 and every time I come here,
2051 01:47:55 you claim I'm doing the CIA's bidding.
2052 01:47:56 I only have a few days left in my term here,
2053 01:48:00 and if there isn't a plan to release the report before I go,
2054 01:48:04 I'm prepared to read it on the floor of the Senate.
2055 01:48:07 And either the White House
2056 01:48:08 or the Republicans will have to stop me.
2057 01:48:10 What would you have us do?
2058 01:48:12 Now, we go after Bush and Cheney on this,
2059 01:48:14 what's to prevent the Republicans
2060 01:48:15 from coming back at us and trying to repeal health care?
2061 01:48:19 We go after the CIA, uh, maybe they say,
2062 01:48:22 "Okay, well, immigration reform is off the table."
2063 01:48:25 Maybe it's gun control.
2064 01:48:27 Now, democracy is messy...
2065 01:48:31 but let's just think
2066 01:48:32 how many countries there are in the world
2067 01:48:35 where a report like this could even get done.
2068 01:48:42 I would like us to be more than the country that did the report.
2069 01:48:45 I'd like us to be the country that made it public.
2070 01:48:48 And that is what I intend to see happen.
2071 01:48:53 I yield the floor to the senior senator from California.
2072 01:49:11 Over the past six years,
2073 01:49:13 a small team of investigators pored over
2074 01:49:16 more than 6.3 million pages of CIA records
2075 01:49:21 to complete this report.
2076 01:49:24 It shows that the CIA's actions a decade ago
2077 01:49:28 are a stain on our values and on our history.
2078 01:49:32 The release of this 500-page summary
2079 01:49:35 cannot remove that stain,
2080 01:49:37 but it can and does say to our people and the world
2081 01:49:41 that America is big enough to admit when it's wrong
2082 01:49:46 and confident enough to learn from its mistakes.
2083 01:49:49 Releasing this report is an important step toward
2084 01:49:53 restoring our values and showing the world
2085 01:49:56 that we are, in fact, a just and lawful society.
2086 01:50:01 There are those who will seize upon the report and say,
2087 01:50:05 "See what the Americans did?"
2088 01:50:08 And they will try to use it
2089 01:50:10 to justify evil actions or to incite more violence.
2090 01:50:15 We cannot prevent that.
2091 01:50:17 But history will judge us
2092 01:50:19 by our commitment to a just society governed by law
2093 01:50:24 and the willingness to face an ugly truth
2094 01:50:27 and say "Never again."
2095 01:50:31 Thank you.
2096 01:50:32 I now yield the floor to the senator from Arizona.
2097 01:50:38 What might come as a surprise
2098 01:50:40 is how little these practices did to aid our efforts
2099 01:50:43 to bring 9/11 culprits to justice and
2100 01:50:46 to find and prevent terrorist attacks today and tomorrow.
2101 01:50:50 That could be a real surprise,
2102 01:50:52 since it contradicts the many assurances
2103 01:50:54 provided by intelligence officials,
2104 01:50:57 on the record and in private,
2105 01:50:59 that enhanced interrogation techniques were indispensable
2106 01:51:03 in the war against terrorism.
2107 01:51:05 I think it's an insult to the many intelligence officers
2108 01:51:08 who have acquired good intelligence
2109 01:51:10 without hurting or degrading prisoners
2110 01:51:12 to assert we can't win this war without such methods.
2111 01:51:16 Yes, we can, and we will.
2112 01:51:20 But in the end,
2113 01:51:22 torture's failure to serve its intended purpose
2114 01:51:24 isn't the main reason to oppose its use.
2115 01:51:28 This question isn't about our enemies; it's about us.
2116 01:51:33 It's about who we were, who we are, and who we aspire to be.
2117 01:51:38 It's about how we represent ourselves to the world.
2118 01:51:42 Our enemies act without conscience.
2119 01:51:45 We must not.
2120 01:51:50 Senator Dianne Feinstein today
2121 01:51:52 exposed the CIA's now extinct
2122 01:51:54 enhanced interrogation techniques.
2123 01:51:57 The thing that strikes me about
2124 01:51:58 what the Senate was doing today...
2125 01:52:00 Dianne Feinstein, Jay Rockefeller...
2126 01:52:02 is they were doing everything they can
2127 01:52:04 to make sure this doesn't happen again.
2128 01:52:06 Because by going public like this...
2129 01:52:08 Dan.
2130 01:52:11 You did well.
2131 01:52:12 Thank you.
2132 01:52:15 Thank you.
2133 01:52:17 "We're gonna be on you if you try to do this."